Looking for Some Sage Wisdom, 85 F250, 6.9IDI

[Austin Centurion]

Hello, I'm new to this part of the interwebs, but was really hoping to get some sage wisdom from some of you folks.

I just purchased a 1985 Ford F-250 Super Cab, Long Bed, 6.9 IDI, T19 Trans, Dana 70 LSD rear with 4.10 gears. It has the door tag and some of the bits from Centurion-Lehman (The retro CB radio console on the roof), but I can't find much details on that, except for some pictures of their old marketing flyers from the 80s.

The truck didn't run when I bought it, but I felt like for $1000, it was a decent deal to give myself a project (I've been getting the work-from-home idle hands cabin fever lately). There is rust in all the usual places (cab corners, fenders, and some under the bed). But I've always wanted to learn how to weld, and patch panels are available for cheap.

I did a good once over today, and made some preliminary purchases to get going. Ordered a Powermaster Ultra Duty starter, part #9050, new MC starter solenoid, New/Upgraded battery cables from CustomBatteryCables.com (A high school friend had an 84 that caught fire due to some old battery cables, learning from that incident), new MC ZD1A glow plugs (I did my research to make sure I got the popular recommendation), MC thermostat, Delphi mechanical lift pump, MC fuel filter, 4gal of MC VC5 antifreeze, distilled water, Fleetguard DCA4, rad hoses, and rad cap. Also ordered a fuel injector install kit, but can't afford new injectors right now. Also grabbed 2 new Group 27 batteries during a Costco run today. Basically maxed out the card for right now, so it'll be slow going from here. Also got 2.5gal of Shell Rotella T6 and a Purolator filter from Walmart and AAP. I have a 5gal jug on standby with some Diesel Kleen mixed in. (Also ordered a Haynes manual, to help with everything not related to the IDI)

I plan to pull the bed off this weekend, the side tank is leaking and I want to clean up the frame and rear axle. I have 2 cans of some rust reformer, and a quart of some flat black enamel. It looks like the frame was painted/coated at one point, but it's all flaking and there's a bit of surface rust. I'm gonna go crazy with a flap disc. Plus the interior is rather gross, so that is going to get stripped out too.

The prior owner started to do some wrenching on it a while back, which is why it has been sitting under a tree for a while. Radiator was pulled and system drained, not sure why, but running some flush and distilled water before pulling it back in. He also started to work on the injectors, but stopped, guess he realized it'd need new ones and didn't want to deal with it anymore, I don't know.

My plan is to have this be a long term resto/beater (if that even makes sense). I want to get it running and driving under its own power, but don't care if it looks perfect. I like the vintage. I had an 84 Dodge D150, 318LA, and 727 Torqueflite before this, but sold it and bought a 2015 Mustang to have a more reliable daily that could make longer trips.

I'm here because the fear is starting to set in, and that feeling like I bit off more than I can chew. I'm familiar with gas engines, this is my first diesel. I know suck, slap, bang, blow but I'm not as familiar with the black magic that occurs under the hood of this giant driveway ornament. So I'm searching for some sage wisdom from you wonderful people. What am I missing? What should I fix/check/replace/do? I'm sorry for this being sooooo long winded. I didn't intend it to be, but I got to typing this out and couldn't stop. And I thank all of you in advance for taking the time to even give thread a simple read.

 

[aggiediesel01]

You're amongst friends here. Several on here have taken on large projects/full scale restomods of these trucks and they've turned out well. The more recent one that's still on going with a through build thread would likely be worth you look over is posted by hacked89. His build thread is here:

https://www.oilburners.net/threads/1989-f-250-7-3-project.83864/

He chose to do the body work first and is now rebuilding the motor.

Another very through and very long is from laserjock. It's got a tremendous amount of detailed information about the body work process and rebuilding/upgrading nearly every system on the truck but it's so long it's a bit intimidating to wade through.

https://www.oilburners.net/threads/project-big-red.63615/

also go download these wiring diagrams and EVTM

http://www.garysgaragemahal.com/wiring-diagrams.html

There's several really good member/vendors on here that most here are dedicated to for critical items like injector pumps, injectors, turbos. All have been really good to the group and we try to keep them going to help us as well.

Wes at www.classicdieseldesigns.com
Russ at www.russrepair.com
Mel at www.conestogadiesel.com
Justin at www.idiperformance.com


For starters it sounds like you got most of what you need to get started. Do you have access to a compression tester? If so, with no history on the truck I would start by getting it to spin over and then doing a compression test really before anything else to make sure it's going to be worth hanging all the new parts on. Mostly you're looking for even-ness between all the cylinders 10% spread or less is best and they are hopefully all above 400 but we've seen them run down in the 350 range as well. Once you've established that there's no dead holes then move on to getting it to fire. These trucks need decent compression, 12V at the IP and a good GP system to be reliable. I suggest looking at Classic Diesel to get the manual GP control kit for your truck even if you have to stretch the plastic a bit more. Get the injectors back in and bleed the fuel system, see if the key will engage the IP solenoid and see if it will fire off. If not figure that out first before adding back the radiator or water. You can get it running without them for a few minutes but once you've got it running then go ahead and put work into all that other stuff you bought.

 

[Austin Centurion]

Thank you so much! This gives me somewhere to start, and something to do while I wait for parts. I did drop the batteries in yesterday, just to see if the thing would acknowledge that it had power once again. Didn't try to crank it, but the glow plug light comes on and that god awful buzzer. So, at this point, I guess I should try to figure out if it's worth saving.

So button up the injectors, as best I can, one of the glow plugs has a spade terminal broke off. But just need to see if it'll crank, so that shouldn't be an issue. Should I throw some oil or anything into the cylinders to help it out from a lubricity standpoint? I don't know if that's a thing with diesels, like it is with gassers.

I don't have a compression tester on hand, but I found one that looks like it'll work, may have to wait to order that: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B013DIZYCY/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A3QXLJFRUVBUM3&psc=1

 

[hacked89]

Welcome to Oilburners.
No to the oil in the cylinders.
The compression tester you can do for half the price and not wait on shipping if you have a harbor freight near you.
You can also go through the glow plug holes.

Here's a video I put together to help people.

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Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

 

[Austin Centurion]

Gonna go grab that Horrible Fright compression tester in a little bit, but I gotta get this thing cranking first. I got both batteries fully charged up, plopped them in, hooked them up, and tried to crank it over without the glow plugs or injectors connected, just to see if she'll bump over. Got nothing, just a click from the solenoid (I think it was the solenoid). So maybe the starter is dead (it looks like it's original to the truck), or I'm missing something. I know the guy I bought it from said that a pin in the shifter broke, maybe it's stuck in gear and I can't tell. But figured clutch in, brake in, turn the key would do the trick.

Anyway, new starter showed up today. Gotta love Summit's shipping from Texas.

 

[hacked89]

Everything has a place and perspective. Even very high end exotic shops, doesn't make sense to buy snap on, Mac etc for everything. Their gantry cranes are great for the money, and I've used their 1ton cherry picker for 8 years. I'm about to swap it out for their 2 ton.

Not that I particularly care to defend it and it's Chinese tools, but it has plenty of certain tools and situations that it makes sense.
That Qbace is no better than HF so didn't want to see you waste money.

You can bypass the starter relay how I describe in my video to test the starter.
Careful if you think it's in gear.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

 

[Austin Centurion]

@hacked89 Oh, I have nothing against HF, I love my aluminum floor jack from them, except for when I stub my toe on it. I just like to have fun with their name from time to time.

I pulled the starter today, couldn't get any action out of it, found a very faded reman. tag on it, but it looks pretty rough, so it'll chill in the bed of the truck until the end of time.

@aggiediesel01 I did find that someone has installed a manual override for the glow plugs on it already, looks like it was some time ago tho, as the button has a bit of surface rust. I found a mysterious lime-green wire running from either the starter solenoid or glow plug relay (my brain is fried from working in the heat) and traced it back thru the firewall to the button mounted on the dash under the wheel. Right next from what I'm guessing is a trailer brake control thingy (I don't know anymore, it's black, has wires out the back and a spring loaded slide thing).

I got 7 out of 8 glow plugs out. The one in Cyl 3 put up a fight, looks like it melted or something, the tip was not in the best shape. The one in Cyl 7 is a similar story, only I can't get enough leverage to yank it out now that it's unthreaded (pretty sure that's a word but auto-correct says otherwise). I made sure I did some clean-up under the hood, vacuumed up all the bits and things before pulling them. Also pulled all the injectors, and to my dismay, I found why the listing said it "needs an injector at least". Cylinder 5 injector came out easy, but left the lower bit of the injector in the hole, looks like it broke off. Not sure where to go from here on that one.

Also, I'm somewhat having a panic attack, I put a 1 inch socket on the crank bolt and attempted to turn it clockwise with a 3 foot breaker bar, but nothing. No movement. Am I screwed or just weak? Did I buy an oversized paperweight that needs an engine rebuild/replacement?

 

[Philip1]

With the glowplug story, the cheaper plugs tend to swell at the tip so when you replace them you want to use motorcraft or beru only. With the injector splitting in half, it likely just unthreaded the top and bottom halves. If you might be able to start threading the two halves back together and pull them out together. If not you can use a big bolt extractor and use it to pull the bottom half out. Before trying any of that however, you need to check and make sure the engine is not locked up. If all glowplugs and/or injectors are removed (so long as the transmission is out of gear) it should be relatively easy to spin the engine over by hand. If you cannot get it to spin over by tightening the crank nut, try spinning it backwards and see if it will move. If not remove all the fan belts and try both directions again. If it still doesn't move you will most likely need a replacement or rebuild

 

[Austin Centurion]

Well, I think I got scammed (Mostly just me being an under-informed idiot). @Philip1 I tried it, just went out in the rain. Took off the belts, hucked them over the truck into the bed, and got the breaker bar on it again. NOTHING. No going forward, no going back.

I'm feeling defeated. In a few months, I could afford a replacement short block or core, judging by the prices I found on Car-Part. But have no idea how I'd go about getting a 1000lb engine shipped to me, or how I'd go about pulling the brick that's in there now. I f***ed up.

 

[SuperDave]

The rings are probably stuck in the grooves of the pistons and to the cylinder walls, you can try mixing up some berrymans injector cleaner and some auto trans fluid to pour in each cylinder and let it soak a few days then work the crank back and fourth very slowly til you get a full turn out of it before trying the starter. I have unfroze a lot of engines this way in the past. Worst comes to worst you have to tear it down and do a quick ring and bearing job which isnt cheap but is cheaper than another engine. Hell I'm looking for a rebuildable core 6.9 myself

 

[IDIBRONCO]

Just a little FYI here: the crank bolt takes a 15/16" socket, not a 1". Not that it really matters at this point. Before completely giving up in frustration, make sure that the transmission isn't in gear. You weren't 100% sure when you tried the starter and you didn't specificly mention finally finding neutral.

 

[Austin Centurion]

Just a little FYI here: the crank bolt takes a 15/16" socket, not a 1". Not that it really matters at this point. Before completely giving up in frustration, make sure that the transmission isn't in gear. You weren't 100% sure when you tried the starter and you didn't specificly mention finally finding neutral.

You're very right, I'm dumb, my bad, I had a 24mm socket on the end, I was just grabbing from the rack what looked to fit and that fit the best. I think I have a 15/16" somewhere around here, just have to find it, most of my frequently used sockets are metric thanks to the Mustang.

I forgot to mention, but I did manage to find neutral. It took some fiddling, because the shifter is basically a wacky waving arm flailing inflatable tube man from side to side, but the forward and back still has positive engagement, so it seemed that it was jammed in 2, so I was able to push forward and find 1, and then pull back a bit into neutral.

But I'm going to try the trick mentioned by @SuperDave because I have those items available. The other option I've found is to use diesel, which I also have, and I plan to drain the oil anyway. My guess is that because they left some of the injectors mostly undone for so long, some moisture has invaded the cylinders and bound them up good. Going to start that process tomorrow, take it slow, and work it little by little. Hopefully she'll free up. Which should be enough time to let the other parts come in and then make it worth it to start getting those installed. I did spin the water pump over, it sounded a little crunchy, so probably gonna swap it out before filling the cooling system back up again. Gonna go clean Target out of distilled water again to flush the block out, because I bet you it's filthy in there too.

Thank you guys, all of you! I really appreciate the advice and support. It helps a lot. I bought this truck because having something to work on helps me deal with stress and anxiety (I used to work on hot rods and what-not with my grandfather when I was younger), but I didn't expect what I've gotten myself into.

 

[IDIBRONCO]

That moisture can be a MFer even if nothing is left open on an engine like your injector holes.

 

[aggiediesel01]

Check the seal on the cowl to the hood of your truck. If that's bad or missing it may indicate a possibly more serious issue. When they are missing or broken off rain water can pool on top of the air filter lid and then sometimes the water can leak past the center bolt down into the engine. That would be bad news if that had happened and then someone had tried to spin it over and it hydrolocked. If it just got damp and stuck to the bore it can usually be unstuck without subsequent damage. Check out what homelessduck went through to get his unstuck, although his unfortunately hasn't ended up in the good column yet.

https://www.oilburners.net/posts/1053530/

Mixing the water with vinegar to let it soak in the block will also help cut the crud out. I don't know the recommended ratio but it's commonly mentioned around these sites and should be able to found with the search tool.

Worst case with north Texas and Oklahoma being horse country, many of these trucks are still lingering in the area and hiding in the wrecking yards and behind the barns of your neighbors. Car-part.com can be your friend if worst comes to worst. Also the 7.3 is a direct bolt in with no issues and they are easier to find in the yards.

 

[Austin Centurion]

Check the seal on the cowl to the hood of your truck. If that's bad or missing it may indicate a possibly more serious issue. When they are missing or broken off rain water can pool on top of the air filter lid and then sometimes the water can leak past the center bolt down into the engine. That would be bad news if that had happened and then someone had tried to spin it over and it hydrolocked. If it just got damp and stuck to the bore it can usually be unstuck without subsequent damage. Check out what homelessduck went through to get his unstuck, although his unfortunately hasn't ended up in the good column yet.

Well, that just gave me the most cynical laugh that I've had in a while. Yeah, that cowl seal is long gone. I now realize that I was finding pieces of it on top of the engine when I was cleaning it up to pull the injectors and glow plugs. I thought it was old gasket material, like valve cover gaskets, because it was so brittle. Also, that's a super helpful thread, thank you.

I did some looking and comparing. If I wanted to rebuild this engine my way (studs, bore and hone .30 over, pistons of course, cam, lifters, pushrods, gaskets, bearings, etc.) It'd be pushing the $2k mark, with machining included. Not factoring in other items like engine hoist and stand.

But, searching through Car-part, I found a 7.3 long block, minus the injection pump, for $150. Already pulled and on a pallet. Tag claims that it was pulled from a 93 F350. Located in Seattle, so shipping would probably be a bit of a pain, but there are some others, closer to OK, for $250-350. Including one in Miss, for $350, with 78k miles noted on it from a '90 F250. I dug through Craigslist and FB Marketplace, to see if there was anything local to me, but didn't turn up anything. Even asked a couple buddies if they knew anyone with an old diesel Ford laying about.

I know the 6.9 injection pump is the same as the 7.3, but am I right to assume that most of the external parts that I have already on this 6.9, as well as in boxes, would transfer right over (fuel filter housing, belt drive components, etc.)? If that's the case, I might just bite the bullet, and start to strip the bed and front so I can fit this thing in my garage and then get a HF engine hoist.

It's looking like this is going to turn into a full on resto deal at this point.