Cetane!??? Fukks that?
I want sulfer!
I want sulfer!
Is My IP Turned Up?
- Thread starter crash-harris
- Start date
riotwarrior
Full Access Member
Me thinks me will be turning a flat or two or three up 
crash-harris
Breaker! Breaker!
I went ahead and knocked the timing back down earlier while I still have the timing meter here to double check. Set her at 9.4* tightened everything down and came out to 9*. I'll update tomorrow afternoon when I get home what my EGT's look like. I have to take a route that I haven't driven with the truck since the pyro install in tomorrow morning to drop off Gary's meter at the post office, but will be running my normal highway route back home.
I'll update my repair thread with the other pluses I verified today
I'll update my repair thread with the other pluses I verified today
Our dyno tests back at the 10th annual IDI Weekend revealed 8.5 to 9.5 degrees to be the sweet spot. Any more or less, and you give up performance. The thing you have to remember about playing with your fuel screw, is it messes with the internal timing curve as well, which pretty much messes up the entire calibration, but that's neither here nor there. Increasing your fuel rate will retard your timing, and reducing your fuel rate will advance your timing. A stock pump will give you about 1100 degrees EGT on a sustained grade with your foot to the floor. This will vary depending on elevation and cetane value.
icanfixall
Official GMM hand model
Thats Mel for this great information on timing and fuel delivery rate. I now understand why my timing moves around on me as I adjust the fuel rate.. That piece of information really does help.
crash-harris
Breaker! Breaker!
Good to know! I'm planning on next year replacing the IP if I can swing it, just wasn't financially feasible when I did the injectors. This IP appeared to be a stock one from a van with an auto tranny and still has the TPS for the E4OD on it. One day I'll get around to testing it and listing it for sale. I don't know what all was done to the truck before I got it other than a Jasper reman engine that's been in there for awhile and some forgetful (to say the least) installation practices.
Mel, do you by chance have any info on how many degrees of timing are changed per 1 flat either way on the fuel screw? It sounds like if I need to turn the screw down some that I've got the timing in a great spot for it at 9*.
@Agnem
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gandalf
Senior Member
Great information, Mel. Thank you.
This brings into question the practice of 'stamp marking' your timing, finding and setting the timing and then stamping a line across the moving/non-moving facings. As soon as you then adjust the fuel screw those stampings are off, no longer line up to maintain the same timing. How far off will they be? I have no idea. It might even depend on how much you adjust the fuel.
Therefore, adjusting either the timing and/or the fuel becomes a process of adjusting one and then the other, going back and forth making ever-decreasing adjustments.
Is my understanding of the process anywhere near correct? Might we each reach a point where we say, "close enough"?
crash-harris
Breaker! Breaker!
I may still have to turn the fuel down. Had a decent little load on the way home with all the tools and it still got up close to 1200* without doing much. Runs cooler now at cruise and during slow acceleration, but foot in the floor and watch the needle soar!
Black dawg
Registered User
Can you please explain this fuel rate and timing change...I have always thought opposite of what you posted. Not enough timing change to notice with a meter, but under load, more fuel rate sounded like more timing??
hesutton
The Anti-Anderson
Are you NA or turbo?
An NA IDI will bury the pyro very quickly (even completely stock) if you are working the engine at all. Worse if your IP is turned up. My EGT's on the crew cab are night and day different with the Moose turbo, Bull Moose, and Moose injectors. I had much worse EGT's hauling a very modest load when the truck was NA than I have now with lots more power and hauling the fifth wheel.
Heath
An NA IDI will bury the pyro very quickly (even completely stock) if you are working the engine at all. Worse if your IP is turned up. My EGT's on the crew cab are night and day different with the Moose turbo, Bull Moose, and Moose injectors. I had much worse EGT's hauling a very modest load when the truck was NA than I have now with lots more power and hauling the fifth wheel.
Heath
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Hydro-idi
Full Access Member
Sounds like the pump needs to be turned down.
My baby moose IP would blow tons of black smoke & bury the pyro needle to 1500 fairly easy (with a n/a engine).
Worked just fine when my engine had a turbo on it.
I had Mel turn down pump to a mini moose with my new engine (still n/a). From 0-70 wide open, egts are steady at 1000 and a gray haze. I see around 4-500 cruising.
My baby moose IP would blow tons of black smoke & bury the pyro needle to 1500 fairly easy (with a n/a engine).
Worked just fine when my engine had a turbo on it.
I had Mel turn down pump to a mini moose with my new engine (still n/a). From 0-70 wide open, egts are steady at 1000 and a gray haze. I see around 4-500 cruising.
crash-harris
Breaker! Breaker!
She's N/A and will probably never see a turbo until I can do a DT360 swap way down the road. Bruiser will definitely get a fresh turbo IDI though
If Mel doesn't chime back in tonight then I'll call the shop tomorrow. I'd like to turn the IP down tomorrow as long as it won't retard my timing below 8* (as previously stated, I turned it down to 9* before I sent the timing meter back).
If Mel doesn't chime back in tonight then I'll call the shop tomorrow. I'd like to turn the IP down tomorrow as long as it won't retard my timing below 8* (as previously stated, I turned it down to 9* before I sent the timing meter back).
crash-harris
Breaker! Breaker!
Went ahead and turned the fuel screw counter clockwise today after changing the oil. Had to readjust idle speed as it idled a bit higher than before. Making a trip across the county to visit my folks shortly and have a decent hill to climb at 70 mph, so we'll see what she does.
Curious thing, my pump has no torque screw on it, but I broke off yellow paint when I removed the inspection cover on the IP. Maybe it was turned up when it was rebuilt by someone? From what I've read online, ford used red paint as a tattle tale mark?
Curious thing, my pump has no torque screw on it, but I broke off yellow paint when I removed the inspection cover on the IP. Maybe it was turned up when it was rebuilt by someone? From what I've read online, ford used red paint as a tattle tale mark?
riotwarrior
Full Access Member
crash-harris
Breaker! Breaker!
I guess that's what someone else decided to do as well. EGT's look more like they should now. Took the 3/4 mile or so 5% grade (I'm guessing) at 70 mph and stayed below 1200*. Holding steady at 70 mph EGT's are about 650-750*.
When I took the large backroad hill that is a part of my route when I go anywhere, I managed to almost touch 1200*, but landed closer to 1100*. Normally I cruise 3rd gear up it but this time I hammered it. There's a very sharp turn at the bottom that I only take at about 25 mph, but by the time I crested the hill I was going 45 (maybe 1/8 mile long or less).
On another note, pep doesn't really seem to be much different. A little less, but I'll take it! Also the darkest smoke I've seen unloaded so far has been a darkish grey. No more billowing black clouds. I think I can work with this setup towing the pig of a camper up steep backroad grades.
When I took the large backroad hill that is a part of my route when I go anywhere, I managed to almost touch 1200*, but landed closer to 1100*. Normally I cruise 3rd gear up it but this time I hammered it. There's a very sharp turn at the bottom that I only take at about 25 mph, but by the time I crested the hill I was going 45 (maybe 1/8 mile long or less).
On another note, pep doesn't really seem to be much different. A little less, but I'll take it! Also the darkest smoke I've seen unloaded so far has been a darkish grey. No more billowing black clouds. I think I can work with this setup towing the pig of a camper up steep backroad grades.
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