injection timing

[06cumminspower]

i have the screw turned all the way in on my pump, just wondering if i need to advance the timing and if so how much. i am thinking if you are at the front bumper looking at the windshield you would need to twist it to the left is that right?

 

[hesutton]

What is your timing set at now? That will determine if you need to advance it or not.

What are you EGT's/Boost running?

Rotate toward the passenger's side to advance, toward the driver's side to retard.

Heath

 

[06cumminspower]

timing is at stock, i have no egt gauge or a turbo, i just keep my right foot out of it when it starts to smoke when i pull anything

 

[06cumminspower]

anybody??

 

[Cincinnati Guy]

Your question was answered kind of. You didn't say what you are intending to do either advance oe retard

 

[FORDF250HDXLT]

i have the screw turned all the way in on my pump, just wondering if i need to advance the timing and if so how much. i am thinking if you are at the front bumper looking at the windshield you would need to twist it to the left is that right?

"As always, there is a happy medium between fuel rate and ingnition timing. A general rule to follow, and a good starting point for tuning, is that the more fuel you're running, the more conservative the ingnition timing. It all goes back to cylinder pressure. Adding fuel increases the combustion pressure since there is now more gas trying to expand rapidly during the power stroke."

 

[DragRag]

In your position I would put a pyro and boost gauge on there now. The I would loosen the pump and push towards the passenger side about the width of a quarter and see how it sounds from there. Test drive, and see where your egt's are and boost under full throttle on a pull. Keeping your foot out under load when pulling is good, but you still can't be sure how hot the gas is leaving the cylinder. You may burn it down, you may not, it's a crap shoot for you at the moment. I would go the way I have recommended to you really.

 

[icanfixall]

I really can't advise you to change anything because you really have no idea where you are at this time. You need to know what the timing is now.. Your answer of stock timing tells nothing thats worth much but if it is stock it "could be" 8.5 btdc... See where this is going... Information is power... the more you have the more power you have to change things. Keeping your foot out of a pump thats turned all the way up is fine but... How do you know the pump is all the way up... You have no pyro numbers to start with so nobody really knows if the pump is all the way up.... It can sometimes feel like its not going to turn up more but it can... Plus if the screw is all the way in then you stand a chance of bottoming out the plunger in the pump.... That wil ruin the pump. Others have found that when bottoming the screw they feel it stop metal to metal.. then they back it off about 1/4 flat of the allen wrench. How old is the pump... How many miles are on the injectors and pump... Now finally you really need some gauges so you know whats going on... Otherwise the damage possible because of no information can be horrible... Go to utube and enter Toms Farm... See what those guys do to these trucks without any feelings.... We as a collective don't subscribe to that kind of behaviour.....

 

[hesutton]

How many miles are on the IP and injectors?

You have no turbo and have maxed the IP? Not a good combination. Your EGT's will be through the roof when loading the engine. You need a pyro or you need to turn down the fuel. We don't want you to break anything.

If the IP is the original or with high mileage, it has likely worn to the point the timing has retarded. It could benefit from some advance in timing. How much? Who knows............ without knowing where the timing is now it is not possible, but just moving the pump toward the passenger's side without a timing meter is just a blind change in timing.

Honestly, finding a shop or the right equipment to time these is a bit of a crap shoot. But, timing it with the correct equipment is the best way to do this.

Heath

 

[Boston]

ah right I think I found the thread I was looking for, and maybe the process will help out ole agent OO6 as well.

I just got a new IP installed on my truck ( 7.3 IDI 1990 F250 lariat XLT ) as well as new injectors. OK so now what. sounds ok and there's no delay in the throttle but no way did I just slap the thing on there and its ready to go. Gotta be some fiddling with it I should be doing. So how do I optimize my fuel delivery system.

sounds like you are going to need to know the
timing
fuel
position its in now.

I installed it the same way it came out, right smack in the middle.

the fuel is a mystery to me, there's some discussion of a screw, what screw, wheres it at and I'll tell you how far in it is or isn't.

timing, no idea but I can figure that one out soon enough, got a timing light around here somewhere but one small hitch, where would I put the elec sensor? There's no spark plugs on this thing so what gives, how do you time a diesel?

thanks and cheers
B

 

[icanfixall]

We have several ways of timing these idi diesels. The most commonly used method is the pluse and the least used is the luminosity method. A kent Moore J33300 meter will time both methods if you have the probes to do so. You can find one on ebay at this time too. Most other meters like snapon will only do the lumi method but... If the snapon meter doesn't have the lumi probe is useless. Nobody sells a probe for that meter. I had several but I sold them to memters here. You can buy a kent moore lumi probe but its going to cost you $375.00 from them. I have several of those probes too. I rent out the kent moore meters to those members on this board. I have three meters out at this time. My fee for this program is $60.00 and thats about 1/2 what it will cost out here on the west coast. Now something about turning up the fuel with no way of knowing how hot the exhaust is getting. This is a sure way of burning up a set of pistons. You need a pyrometer telling you the exhaust temps before you adjust the fuel. If you have a turbo a boost gauge is a must also. Then we can help you adjust the fuel and timing. A simple timing lite will not work on these engines without a meter like the J33300. Sorry for the slightly bad news but we want to keep you running safely..

 

[Boston]

Not bad news just stuff I needed to know

did you mean to say pluse or pulse, something tells me its pulse. and does it mater which method I use.

Ok so I need a pyrometer before I can play with the fuel setting. Where is the screw that adjusts fuel on this thing. Baring a pyrometer someone once told me that if you can't place your hand in the stream of exhaust coming out of the tail pipe, its turned up to high. Not sure if thats in any way accurate but just throwing it out there. Also I have a rather trick exhaust system on this thing. Short lengths of increasing sized pipes mean that the expanding gasses will loose heat faster by virtue of that expansion. So the temp would need to be taken at the header in order to really get anything accurate.

Whats the process assuming I can get a pulse detector, sounds like your out at the moment.

I wonder if this is more expensive than its worth and if I should just take it to a diesel shop to have it tuned.

 

[franklin2]

Here's a link on how to adjust the fuel screw.
http://www.members.shaw.ca/k2pilot/Injection pump adjustment article.htm

 

[Boston]

wow awesome article, thanks. Already answered some important questions. Sounds like, leave it alone is my best bet.

one down two to go.

now how about alternative ways of finding my timing. As far as I know its never been changed from whatever the stock setting is but I'd still want to check it and make sure where it is before I do anything. Although it seems like I'll end up just rotating the IP a little and see how it goes.

 

[icanfixall]

Well I feel thats about the best thing you can do now is get it timed. But actually finding a shop that will time it is almost impossible. Some have even charged members to time these engines by ear... That just makes me angry. That is little more than having you give them money and driving away because they listened to your engine as you sat there. The best on this forum can't time by ear and we have some very qualfied members that have had their rigs for many a year. Mel's name comes to mind and he will not time by ear even after thousands to turcks timed at the ralleys. I've probably done around 70 engines including by own . Mine I have done probably twice a year or more. As I bought another meter I would est them and see if the numbers came up the same. So if you actually find a shop that offers timing ask them what method they use. Either pulse or lumi method works. Pulse will be in advance degrees and lumi wil be in retarded degrees. Thats information you need to know. Both Mel and I were looking into comparing both methods but we never di. We feel they mean the same but there is no proof to that yet. I just do not want to remove a glow plug to use the luminosity probe type timing method...