how stupid can you be

[jtate]

thanks you all for the info, i just try to ask as many questions as i can, sure dont want to have to do this again any time soon. if it has ever got to be done on this engine again it will be the next owner. lol

 

[zigg]

I re-used my head bolts on my last rebuilt 6.9. Over 50,000mi on it, and so far no problems.

My present engine that I'm just working up, I went with new ARP studs because I plan to turbo it, and have it a long time.

Here's the comarison picture of the studs alongside the bolts. You be the judge....

..Poke here...

Zigg

 

[The Warden]

Actually, my head gasket write-up's on my own page. I used ARP studs and did it with the engine in the truck. To be safe, I used rubber bands to hold the 5 rearmost studs in both heads. There's no way the head will go onto the block with the engine in the truck with the studs already installed in the block. In addition, some of the rear bolts/studs won't come all the way out of the head without hitting something in the engine compartment (firewall, heater box, etc.). I couldn't remember which holes the bolts wouldn't come out of, so I went with the 5 rear-most holes to be safe. It isn't that difficult, and I think the studs are worth their weight in gold!

BTW, I have been told time and again that the head bolts on these engines are torque-to-yield, and are to NOT be reused. Considering that the 6.9l can have head gasket problems, I would STRONGLY recommend replacing the bolts, whether you use studs or bolts, just for peace of mind as much as anything else (I imagine that you do NOT want to do this again). I was quoted $400+ for a complete bolt set from Ford and from IH, and I paid less than $300 for my stud set (including shipping), so the studs ended up being cheaper as well.

Here's my write-up...

Comparing the ARP studs to the stock head bolts

Installing the heads

Installing the studs in the heads

And, if you're really bored...The main page for the whole write-up

Hope this helps some...good luck!!

 

[f-two-fiddy]

We've been over this over and over, the consenses is that they are NOT TTY bolts.

 

[MIDNIGHT RIDER]

NOW YOU ALL DONE WENT AND GOT ME ALL CONFUSED


I thought head studs were supposed to be installed into the engine block and locktited in there for good, then the head dropped on over the studs, then washers and nuts torqued down.

What I am seeing in the pictures is the studs being inserted through the heads, after the head has been layed on the block.

If this be the case, what, if any, advantage do the studs have over good heavy bolts??

Thanks.

 

[Freight_Train]

If you want to talk about "Stupidity".....Find the guy that rebuild the engine Tanya and BJ got for their truck the first time.Idiot didn't put the Alignment dowls in one bank.The head was an 1/8th of an inch off.The fire rings were actually in the Cylinder.

As for studs,you can do it either way.Don't know about the lock tite though.Just run the studs down till they bottom out then slide the gaskets over then the heads and torque down the nuts.But to get the passsenger head off with studs you gotta remove the studs since it won't clear the AC box.

 

[icanfixall]

I find it easier to install the heads and then the studs. This way I don't have to "guide" the head down over 17 studs that leave little room for adjusting. The head alingment dowels are a must have item....

 

[h2odrx]

I find it easier to install the heads and then the studs. This way I don't have to "guide" the head down over 17 studs that leave little room for adjusting. The head alingment dowels are a must have item....

do you know a part number for the dowels?

 

[jtate]

thanks everyone for all the info, i ordered all my parts today and i went ahead with the oem bolts and washers. wish i could have went with the studs but the funds are tight. hopefully if it ever needs another topend repair it wont be me doing it, it will be another owner.

 

[yARIC008]

This is why we should use torque and angle, but i've never seen these specs for our head bolts. Torque alone is pretty inaccurate, at least the angle makes up for or attempts to measure stretch. I believe the normal stretch wanted is 50 thousandths on any bolt really... Now if the bolt has yielded and stretched after being used i'm not exactly sure what you'd do. You still want it to stretch 50 thousandths, just not break.

 

[Agnem]

OK, here is the deal on the head bolts. They are not torque to yeild. They CAN be re-used, and for the most part any IDI ever serviced for head gaskets by a dealer, you can bet your bottom dollar they used the old bolts. The service information specifically lists a HIGHER torque value for the 7.3 used bolts, versus new, where as the service info for the 6.9 does not. Also, the 6.9 manual says 75 foot pounds. Period. It's a well known fact though that most of us take them to 85, because all the turbo kit makers recommend it. Here is why we always say to use new head bolts. - They are;

1) Whimpy
2) Exposed to the weather
3) Whimpy.


Did I mention whimpy? If you look carefully at the heads, you will see that the outboard side head bolts actually pass through the top of the head, into open air, and then back into the head. Those bolts will rust where they are exposed, and their diameter becomes degraded. Between the constant temperature extremes, the potential for them to get stretched out, the need to jack up the torque, and the feeling that when you are torquing them down, that one of them is going to snap off any minute, would you really want the 20 to 23 hours you may have invested in a head gasket job to be at risk because you used old head bolts? By the way, replace the washers too. I was a dummy and used new bolts with old washers. Had a washer break during the final torque sequence. Talk about penny wise and pound foolish! Learn from others mistakes. Just use new, or better yet get the studs!

 

[icanfixall]

The head dowel part number from Ford is E3TZ-6A00b-A and come in a package of 4. About $12.00. Someone on this site has a bunch of them and posted he would sell some. I don't remember who it was.

 

[h2odrx]

thaks for the info!