Getting the truck timed tomorrow...

[Rot Box]

Supposedly my truck has an almost new injector pump on it, but I don't think it was timed properly. Even turbocharged my truck is a major slouch even after finding out my air filter is restricting flow. It seems to start and run fine, but I really have to wind it up to get any power out of her and there is hardly any bottom end power. It is not putting out the power that most turbo'ed IDI's if been in have.

Anyway my truck has an appointment with Terry at a very reputable diesel specific shop (www.moonlightdiesel.com) tomorrow morning and they are going to put the meter on it and set the timing. Hopefully this will wake it up a bit. From everything I have read 9.7 BTDC seems to be the sweet spot so I plan to tell him to set it there. Does that sound good or should I tell him to set it wherever he thinks its best? I have no idea on the history of the injectors. They are D code and I don't have any knocking or wierd hiccups... Anyway I'm out of ideas and this seems like a good place to start. I just hope I don't regret not buying my own meter and doing it myself

 

[Agnem]

The book calls for 8.5 + - 2. I'm not a big fan of being over advanced by more than 1 degree. I've gone that route myself, and it ate some glow plugs. If you have the opportunity to watch them do it, then do watch them. Or ask to see the meter. Do something to make sure they are not B.S.ing you and just timing it by ear.

 

[Sycostang67]

I'm getting my truck timed on wednesday. I was also just going over some timing specs.
A member here suggested 9.7 BTDC @ 2000 pulse or 0-0.5 ATDC @ 1400 with luminosity. I read that the lower sulfur content in the fuel allows for advaning the timing without negative effects. Should we consider a different setting?

 

[gnathv]

I checked my timing tonight, it was at 4 degrees, if I change it to 8.5 degrees will I see much improvement or is 4.5 degrees not that much.

 

[plywood]

No doubt you'll notice 4.5 degrees, and I'll bet you'll impressed with the improvement.

 

[gnathv]

Thanks for the reply. Sounds like it is worth the effort.

 

[Diesel JD]

4.5? Wow that is really off, at least being retarded it's not hurting anything too much. As far as the spec, I may have been the one recommending 9.7BTDC or 0* ATDC, I was listening to what RLDSL said about the Euro timing specs being here for our trucks for a very long time, since they have been ahead of us in terms of cleaning up the diesel fuel. I've had my timing at 0-0.5 by luminosity since Sept/Oct and only lost one glow plug, and it could have just been from old age or a bad injector. These berus last so long though that I can't rule out the advanced timing as the culprit. It definitely seems to idle a little rougher up at this level of advance, but then I've had some fuel quality issues with my biodiesel lately so maybe plugged filters is really what is causing that. Supposedly you'll get better fuel economy with the timing set a little advanced, I haven't seen it but again homebrew is very highly variable from one batch to another and I can't rule out something somewhere else being not right.

 

[Rot Box]

Do something to make sure they are not B.S.ing you and just timing it by ear.

I always have that worry in the back of my mind. I made it very clear that I want him to use a meter and I trust the guy. I have had him do the timing on my old rotory pumped Cummins, and it was night and day what a little fine tuning did on that old 6 cylinder Hopefully this will do the trick on my IDI

I'm getting my truck timed on wednesday. I was also just going over some timing specs.
A member here suggested 9.7 BTDC @ 2000 pulse or 0-0.5 ATDC @ 1400 with luminosity. I read that the lower sulfur content in the fuel allows for advaning the timing without negative effects. Should we consider a different setting?

That's what I plan to have it set at. I'll post up the improvements--if any.

As far as the spec, I may have been the one recommending 9.7BTDC or 0* ATDC, I was listening to what RLDSL said about the Euro timing specs being here for our trucks for a very long time, since they have been ahead of us in terms of cleaning up the diesel fuel. I've had my timing at 0-0.5 by luminosity since Sept/Oct and only lost one glow plug, and it could have just been from old age or a bad injector. These berus last so long though that I can't rule out the advanced timing as the culprit. It definitely seems to idle a little rougher up at this level of advance, but then I've had some fuel quality issues with my biodiesel lately so maybe plugged filters is really what is causing that. Supposedly you'll get better fuel economy with the timing set a little advanced, I haven't seen it but again homebrew is very highly variable from one batch to another and I can't rule out something somewhere else being not right.

I don't know hopefully i'll be alright we'll see I guess. I got back from a long trip and now my glowplugs only cycle for half the time and the relay does the click click click click--and it struggles to start a bit don't know if its the 4 month old beru's or the relay.

 

[plywood]

I've had my timing at 0-0.5 by luminosity since Sept/Oct and only lost one glow plug, and it could have just been from old age or a bad injector.

The luminosity probe at 0 equates to about 8 or 9 advanced thought right?

 

[Sycostang67]

Please let us know how it works afterwards. You may be able to influence my decision as I'm going in wednesday morning.

I called 2 places, the first guy said he has the equipment but still times it by ear. When I called the next place, I asked if they would actually use the equipment and mentioned my previous conversation. The guy got a kick out of that but assured me he would use the equipment that they have.

 

[Rot Box]

Well I dropped her off just now and am waiting to hear back. I almost hope they tell me my injectors are shot because a new set of BB's would be nice especially where I would know the history on them...

I think I'll buy myself a meter soon. I don't know about you guy's but regardless of how much I trust these guy's I just hate dropping my truck off for other people to work on it

 

[Sycostang67]

This will be the first time I have let anyone else work on my IDI. It does make you kind of nervous.

Since mel mentioned the possible dangers of advancing more than 1 degree, I was thinking of going to 9, that way it's only .5 a degree further than stock. I'm still interested to hear how your truck runs when you get it back.

 

[SLC97SR5]

Well I dropped her off just now and am waiting to hear back. I almost hope they tell me my injectors are shot because a new set of BB's would be nice especially where I would know the history on them...

I think I'll buy myself a meter soon. I don't know about you guy's but regardless of how much I trust these guy's I just hate dropping my truck off for other people to work on it

I will definetly be watching this, please report on all the details!
What was his price$$?

 

[RLDSL]

9.7 is ideal
How did we come about that number??
Before I retired and had my shop open, I specialized in European cars, primarily diesels, and those cars manuals have for years had 2 sets of timing specs( sometimes more) depending on where in the world they are, but primarily European and US spec, well the Europeans have been running on ULSD fuel for years.
I had tried setting one of those cars at the full euro spec for giggles one time while we still were on the good stuff and it about rattled itself to death from being super advanced

When they introduced the ULSD here we all suffered the same maladies , lowered fuel mileage and power. , Now I know that taking the sulfur out didn't change the actual power supposedly so what's the deal , now what does sulfur do, lets see, they use sulfur to make matches, etc, oh yeah, sulfur BURNS. You remove the sulfur, you change the RATE at which the fuel BURNS, i.e. it slows down, so, those fine folks at Bosch's figures were all starting to make sense when a big lightbulb went off over my head and I realized that they had already done the calculations for this. All we needed to do was find a way to translate Boshes pump timing methods into degrees of crankshaft rotation. I went through all my old manuals and found the MOST CONSERVATIVE avarage advance figure for European fuel, then our resident young math wiz Justin , ran the numbers and got it figured into degrees of crankshaft rotation .
Note this figure is conservative enough that it falls within the original factory spec of 8.5+ or - 2 deg which would allow a max of 10.5 if you were to roll into a shop and pay to be timed

9.7 is idea with the new fuel and when I get to fuel up at the truckstops that still have 500ppm, it runs like a scalded ape

 

[Agnem]

It would be interesting to dyno a truck set at each, run it 3 times and average the results. This would really determine if there is a measurable difference. No doubt cetane value plays into it, since the timing setting for using the luminosity method is heavily dependent on analysis of the fuel. One of the things I've wanted to see along the years, is if you set by luminosity method, and then read by pulse method, what comes back? It would be interesting to see the range of pulse values that are returned based on differences in cetane value. I did have the Moosestang set at 9.5 when running WMO, and she ate about 3 glow plugs. There again, the fuel being a major factor in the cause and effect. The possible flaw I see with using a little european car as a basis for calculating a difference is the diameter of the crank and recommended RPM setting for the different motors to be timed at. I don't think it is fair to state that 9.7 is ideal when all it is based on is some math, and not actual tests. It would be nice to see a number of vehicles using that value to see what happens over time, how it affects fuel milage or what not in lue of actual dyno figures.