G code injectors

jimraelee

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Getting ready to install a Garett turbo. I have a line on a set of "G" code turbo injectors... are they really needed??? I hear often that a moose inj pump can supply more fuel than can be consumed by a NA 7.3 or 6.9 idi. I plan to push it a little with a intercooler to get upwards 10/12psi of boost so think of that also. How do you know when a diesel is running out of fuel... on my new EFI car I can watch fuel trims and 02 readings... but on this mech diesel, I'm guessing watch for lack of black smoke with inj pump turned way up??
 

Agnem

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You do not need G code injectors. You can run them, but they are not a requirment. G codes were introduced with the turbo model, and are refered to as "emissions injectors" which I don't know what they mean by that exactly, other than I think they were trying to get smoke reduction with them. Consequently, I don't think of them as an injector that necessarily going to produce more power. Fuel delivery is a function of the pump. All the injector controls is the PSI required before it will open, and how it sprays the fuel. Ken from DPS produces modified injectors he claims give added HP, but they do it at the expense of the spray pattern, and produce more smoke. He believes because the IDI has pre-cups, that this negates the need for a good spray pattern. I don't have any proof that they necessarily flow more fuel. This is one of the reasons some of my customers say they don't have an over abundance of smoke, where as I do since I'm running the DPS injectors. This summer I plan to revert to stock injectors to see what kind of difference I notice. I'm about half inclined to think I'm actually giving up power and economy with a poor spray pattern. Hence if G codes actually have a better spray pattern, they may produce more power than the DPS ones. I think spray pattern may equate to better timing, since a droplet of fuel is going to burn from the outside in. If it is a big droplet, the center of it will burn later than if it is a small droplet, and some of the droplets that come out of DPS injectors are pretty darn big. I suppose it is possible that oriface size could prevent all the fuel from an injection event from burning, since some of it may be lost to backpressure and expansion of the line or some other kind of compressive loss, but that would only be at full throttle, or at least very heavy throttle, and It would take quite a bit of labbing to find that out. Something I hope to pursue with my rebuilder at some point.
 

Optikalillushun

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i was gunna post about these but ill just do it here.

since i have the top end apart i was gunna replace the injectors because they are original and i did notice some miss at idle plus while in here i dont feel like doing it again heh.

so i thought about going with the G-codes since they were for a turbo model. i read they have a higher pop off pressure and i was wondering if that will affect me being N/A for a while.

i spoke with a few fellas who run G codes and said they didnt notice any problems with them being N/A. mine are BB and if i can squeeze a little more out of my truck when i turbo by doing G codes i might as well.
 

6 Nebraska IDIs

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IIRC the G codes can only be mated with a turbo pump. If you dont put the turbo pump on with the G code injectors then they will flood out your engine, especially if its NA.
Its like putting bigger injectors on a computer controlled car, if you dont tune the computer for the bigger injectors its going to run the same pulse as it did with the stock injectors (holding them open longer) and flooding the engine.
 

Ironman03R

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The difference of a "G" code injector is it has a higher pop pressure set to stock boost. The hole is slightle larger than the other injectors, but the shape of the pintle is more rounded. Picture a U shape for the G's and a V shape for the others. Each injector has its own unique shape and different measurements, but from year to year they vary about .005.
I feel the best injector is a 6.9 or early 7.3 injector set to pop for the amount of boost you are running.
 

typ4

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I had new g codes and I really like my rebuilt bb codes much better. The higher the pop pressure is the later the timing is, only a bit but enough to notice. Mine changed almost 2 degrees.
 

Diesel JD

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I've never run G codes but Delphi BB codes are good, definitely better than ca. 2003 Stanadyne E codes. That's when they had the same philosophy as Ken about the spray pattern. He, and they are probably correct that it won't hurt an IDI to have a sucky spray pattern, but it sure will have an influence on timing and fuel economy, and probably not a good one. I hear the injectors are a significant limiting factor in what a modified pump such as Mel's Moose pump or Ken's turbo cal pump can move... is this true or is that a misconception? One injection shop guy told me that the injectors are already way past maxed out with a stock injector pump, yet its undeniable that these aftermarket pumps improve performance and flow more fuel, so I'm just wondering how it all works together.
 

6 Nebraska IDIs

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I believe that Mel's pump more or less just changes and improves the timing curve of the fuel flow. But I may be wrong.
 

Ironman03R

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As I understand it the reason for a higher pop pressure is to cut through the high pressure in the precup. The more boost you run the higher the pop needs to be set. Timing also needs to be adjusted as soon as you put in new injectors. As parts wear, pop pressure falls, timing changes...
 

jimraelee

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calling Oregon Diesel shop today, I was told that G codes are specific to factory turbo. He didn't explain much why, or get into pop pressure. I would agree that higher pop pressure for the higher press of a turbo is good thing, wouldn't want injectors opening because of hight turbo pressure. Sounds like I should just work on getting a set of the BB codes russ speaks of.

I would think a good spray pattern in any engine would be the best... fuel wont burn/ignite if its in a solid form.

Question though... how do you dial in a set of injectors for a moose pump and 7-12 psi turbo???
 

Diesel JD

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I'm skeptickal about this talk of a turbo changing the pop pressure needed, timing and whatnot. Maybe I don't know what I'm talking about though. I really thought the only difference was that a turbo motor can use more fuel since there is enough air present to turn it into power instead of just pollution. I've always been told that the timing specs are the same for a turbo as N/A except I have heard of retarding the timing but I always assumed this was for emissions control purposes. As for the BB codes, they are Delphi brand injectors and were OEM on Ford/IH IDIs from my understanding. They can be had at many online vendors for around $125-175 for a set of NEW(not rebuilt) injectors and no core charge.
 

typ4

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Turbo has nothing to do with pop pressure. The Injector is just a valve that lets in the fuel at a specified opening pressure, I know all obvious stuff. But if you have a crap pattern you have crap performance. I have yet to find a shop that knows the real difference in the bb, e or g. Although the shop I use did say if you look at the spray you can see quite a difference, so I went back and looked, the g codes he had have more holes than the e or bb, emissions is the reason told by the old ford guy I know. I know my truck likes the remans with new tips more than the g codes, I would recommend only increasing the pop 100 or 200psi max, I tried more and the engine was real loud and you could tell the timing was different.
The pump is calibrated to deliver the fuel the injector just lets it in.
There is a whole different page of timing curves for the db2 even tho everyone says there is just a turbo and non pump, auto and manual are different, I saw the page and no they wouldnt let me copy it.GRRRR
 

FordGuy100

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So Russ, which pump has the better timing curve if you remember, the auto or manual? I'm not doubting you, cause I know that cummins had some different settings for there pumps as far as which tranny they had behind it.

Maybe I wont get G codes, though I'm still leaning towards them.
 
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