Fuel shut off solenoid sticking when hot?

[SLC97SR5]

My Ford will not start when hot.

It had this problem prior to the Moose pump and fresh injectors.

The lift pump has been correctly replaced. All return lines were replaced along with POP tested BB's. The pump has been timed by me with a ferret to 8*. I have adjusted the timing both ways, from 5.5 to 10+...same result.
It will start after cool water is poured on the IP. Surely a fresh Moose would not be bad.

There is no air intrusion. The fuel tank is full and fuel shoots from the schrader valve when cranking. The fuel filter is fresh and the Truck flat hauls ass.

I have run the recommended doses of Howes, PS, Opti-lube and 2 stroke in an effort to "cure" this condition.

What the hell is going on?

Today I placed the key in the run position and removed the FSS power lead several times, each time resulted in a solid click from the solenoid.

Has anyone experienced a sticking FSS when hot? What is the service life on these as the FSS was not replaced under the Moose program.

Please help, I've spent a lot of time and moneyto make this Truck reliable.

 

[icanfixall]

The shut off solenoids are not replaced with any Moose pumps because they are a hearty item. Even when they show cracks in the protective case they still work fine. You may have an electrical issue anyway. About the simplest way to rule out the problem in the ignition switch is to run a jumper wire from the battery positive directly to the shut off solenoid on the top of the pump. Try to start the hot engine.. Find a no start run the jumper. If it starts you found the problem. Now determining if its in the wireing or the ignition switch is the next item to do. You could run enough wire to the dash and use a toggle switch there just so you don't have to get out of the truck to start and stop the engine too. The ignition switch has two positions where power is sent to the starter thru the fender mounted solenoid. There is the start side. This shuts off all power to accessarys and only sends power to the start section of the switch. Then you let go of the key and it changes the power to another run circut in the ignition switch. Its a thought seeing you have replaced everything else but this...

 

[Devon Harley]

does it only turn over and not start or does it not do anything?

 

[Black dawg]

A trick that I have learned to help diagnose/live with a worn head and rotor, is to put 12v to the cold advance solonoid while cranking. Even the most worn out, non hot starting, pos pump will start like brand new when you do this.

 

[OnDaRoad]

Prior to replacing my 94 IDI K code factory turbo injector pump ...

I had exactly the same problem if I shut off my truck and attempted to start it within an hour

After shutting off, I could not get a restart - it would just crank and not fire

I had to wait at least an hour - then it would fire right back up



Jim

 

[SLC97SR5]

Prior to replacing my 94 IDI K code factory turbo injector pump ...

I had exactly the same problem if I shut off my truck and attempted to start it within an hour

After shutting off, I could not get a restart - it would just crank and not fire

I had to wait at least an hour - then it would fire right back up

Jim

Yup, this is exactly what is going on. The starter crank speed is good. Black Dapwg, I have used that trick in the past without much luck. I will be pulling a trailer this weekend so I will verify the solenoid moving when hot.

 

[SLC97SR5]

2Well, the FSS is opening and closing when hot. The wire to it is supplying full voltage while cranking.

What now?

Is fuel viscosity an issue? I have run straight D2. D2 with a gallon of fresh 15-40 thrown in to try to heavy up the fuel...no change.

The truck starts great in the winter, I'm assuming because the fuel is nice and cold and has the same effect of pouring cool water over the pump.

Any ideas?

 

[Old Blue]

Classic advance piston bore symptoms from the sounds of it, and everything I've read on the DB-2 for years. Can't say what might have caused it, but it sounds like that IP is going to need to be re-opened and checked unless someone has a miracle cure for you. You already said you get flow at the schrader valve, did you do a quantity test and pressure test on the lift pump? I'd do those first before removing the IP, and perhaps try another miracle flush or two with some Stanadyne/Howe's/Optilube etc... If you already did one flush, maybe order in a different product for the 2nd try?

Here are the procedures taken from dieselmann's IDI page: (http://www.intellidog.com/dieselmann/idi.htm)

Fuel system
Next check for fuel delivery through the fuel filter. On 6.9 engines this is checked at the 3/16" hose barb on the fuel filter outlet elbow, and on 7.3 at the fuel filter orifice/return line fitting or restricted filter sensor port. If checking either at the filter return line fitting, plug the return hose. Fuel pressure here should be 1 psi minimum at idle. Lift pump pressure is taken at the fuel filter bleed schrader port and should be 2 psi minimum at idle. Fuel volume is taken at the same point and should be at least one pint in 30 seconds at idle. Inspect the fuel taken during the volume test for signs of water or contamination.
If the engine won't start, these specs may be lower as idle speed is 675 RPM and cranking speed will be less.
Fuel supply and return line restriction is normally tested with the engine at 3300 RPM. For supply restriction a vacuum gauge is tee'd into the lift pump inlet hose and should read less than 6 in/Hg at 3300 RPM. For a return line restriction a pressure gauge is tee'd into the hose running from the rear of the engine. This should read less than 2 psi at 3300 RPM. But a return line restriction can also be detected by installing a clear hose in place of the return line hose at the fuel filter. Watch the flow of fuel while cranking and if it flows towards the filter, inspect the fuel return circuit.
Installing a clear line at the filter return can also be used to detect air intrusion into the fuel supply system if this is suspected, although at this point the symptom would most likely be a stall after starting followed by a hard start, in which case by changing the location of the clear line you can pin point the area of the air leak. If air is getting into the injection pump, this would cause hard start concern. A clear line can be installed at the injection pump outlet to detect this.
If the concern were a rough idle, the clear lines can be used to detect aeration of the fuel. Install the lines and start the engine. Run the engine at 3000 RMP for 2 minutes, then watch the clear lines for signs of air. Some bubbles less than 1/16" is normal, but if the bubbles are larger, constant, or if the fuel appears to foam, there is air being pulled into the supply system.
To check the transfer pump pressure inside the injection pump, a special adapter which replaces the transfer pump cover lock screw and attaches to a 160 psi gauge (the cover lock block has to be in place). Transfer pump pressure is taken at 3300 RPM and should be 90-110 psi for 6.9; 90-120 psi for 7.3.

If the engine won't start, all other checks are normal, and there is no air inside the injection pump, chances are the transfer pump is not producing enough pressure to start the engine. This can be checked by opening one or more injector lines while cranking. If no fuel is reaching the injectors, suspect an internal injection pump problem.

 

[SLC97SR5]

Bump for other ideas?

I was hoping Agnem would chime in. I know he's usually very busy and I like trying to add to the boards knowledge base, that's why I haven't pm'd.

 

[opusd2]

I'm curious, I don't remember reading this elsewhere though I know it has been mentioned, but is there a commercial or agricultural version of the Fuel Stop that is cable operated? I seriously don't remember and was going to fab something up myself, though it would be nice to get a manual valve in. Any ideas?

And if I am asking something stupid, I'm tired.

 

[Agnem]

If it is starting with a dose of cold water, it most likely is a pump problem. You've had that one for a year and a half. How many miles did you put on it? Shoot me a PM and we will take this off-line.