Expert Forensics needed - rebuild 7.3 idi "ticking" direction needed

[ferrellmedia]

If you have never heard the truck, then your not likely to notice this noise.

however, if you have heard the truck, and, or you know what your listening to, the noise is definately abnormal.

I've ruled out the lifter as the stethescope on each rocker arm sounds exactly the same, the noise isn't any louder across all 16, if it was a lifter, wouldn't I be able to hear the noise lounder on one rocker arm vs. all others? (valve covers are off and engine running)

It's not a "tick" really, it's more of a knock that someone who didn't know what they werre listening to, (like the mechanic I took it to) would actually reference as a bad sound.

Knuckledragger, I like your potential idea and this is where the noise seems most prominent when poking around solid surfaces with the stethescope under the truck with it running.

It it was cracked, I could visually see this crack?

I can unbolt the converter, no issue and slide it back, no issue, but when I look will I see the flexplate cracked?

I have honestly not checked the trans to engine bolts, originally tightened with impact wrench, no locktight, so I will check this weekend and attempt to look at the flexplate.

I had the same thought due to the sounds location, but the flexplate does not look like it's wobbling, didn't notice any cracks around the weld of the gears to the plate.

 

[Knuckledragger]

I may be all wet, but the more you describe the sound, the more I think it may be the flex plate. You originally said that you checked the converter bolts? If the converter were loose, it would make the kind of noises you have described. If the flexplate is cracked, it is the same result. The converter spinning around full of fluid and wobbling at idle or under initial load until it gains some sort of equilibrium.

Whether or not you can see the crack depends on the type of crack it is. if it a radial crack, I would say yes, you should be able to see evidence, if not the crack itself. If the crack is annular, you would probably not be able to see it unless you can get a little mirror up between the torque converter and flywheel/flexplate. You may also be able to move the flexplate a little with a prybar. If you can, that will give you evidence of whether or not there is a crack or break.

I do not know how much the converter can be moved, but this exercise should not take more than an hour laying on the ground, less if you have a rack.

 

[BigRigTech]

Have you cut open the oil filter to look for metal? Cracked flexplates can be really loud - especially with the torque of a diesel rattling it.

 

[Agnem]

Perhaps your best option is to temporarily unbolt your trans and torque converter and just run the engine without that stuff turning to quickly rule out that possbility.

 

[ferrellmedia]

Have not cut the oil filter yet, I think I will just send a sample off for analysis, looks like the best bet, but intend to drain the oil and check for gunk and keep the filter in case I want to go thru the trouble of opening it up later.

I have double-checked all four converter bolts and inspected the flexplate I could see when I was doing that.

I do see a very slight wobble to the flexplate when running, so getting more curious.

If I remember correctly when I put the engine back in, I can unbolt the converter and push it all the way into the tranny and actually run the engine without unbolting the engine from the tranny case, correct?

I think the oil analysis is key and I suspect it's 50/50 between a flexplate and a sloppy piston and the oil analysis should show me convincingly if it's a sloppy piston as I don't have 2k miles on this fresh install.

 

[Agnem]

...
If I remember correctly when I put the engine back in, I can unbolt the converter and push it all the way into the tranny and actually run the engine without unbolting the engine from the tranny case, correct?...

I don't recall how much slop there is on that torque converter. I want to say no, but if you unbolt the converter first and make the attempt you will know very quickly if this is indeed possible. Just remember the converter has a centering disc that may or may not clear the flexplate and it will probably make a metalic sound if it does not and the engine is running.

 

[Goofyexponent]

Take the oil filter off, cut it open - sqeeze the oil out of it in a bench vice and look for debris in the filter media....That should rule out something serious unless you find metal.

That was the first thing I thought of after exhaust leak.

If there is shavings getting around the oil system, they HAVE to be in the filter media!

 

[BigRigTech]

Bingo!...It's a $10 filter that can tell a lot.

 

[ferrellmedia]

OK, your all correct, I should start with the oil.

But tried to open up a fuel filter when initially installing the engine and it was more work than I initially thought, so I'm thinking the oil filter will be a lot of work as well.

I plan to take an air cutoff wheel around the top of the filter and I'm hopeful the media will just lift out, suggestions otherwise?

First, I'm going to button back up the valve covers, (reuse the gaskets) and run the engine until it's hot.

Then I will drain the oil and take an oil sample to be sent away.

Then I will open up the oil filter and post what I find.

I'm going out to get a clean catch for the oil so I can be certain of what comes out.

I remembered incorrectly, when the engine went in, I had to align the converter bolts to get the engine in all the way, so if it's the flexplate I think I will need to pull the engine, (which turns out isn't that hard of a job anyway).

I will post progress either tonight or later this weekend, thanks for the patience and suggestions.

 

[Goofyexponent]

It would also be useful to find out if the material (if any) in the oil filter is ferrous or non-ferrous. This can help determine the source of the shavings.

Just pour the oil onto a piece of glass or plexiglass and hold a fairly stong magnet covered in a plastic bag or seran wrap on top to see if the particles move with the magnet. This keeps the crap off the magnet and lets you see if anything sticks.

A magnetic oil plug would be nice!

 

[idi traveler]

I came across a big donut magnet a few years ago that fits the bottom of the oil filter perfectly. I don't remember where it came from though.

 

[ferrellmedia]

I drained the oil today and found a small amount of "curled" metal shavings attached to my magnetic drain plug, picture attached.

good news is that the noise was quieter after the oil change, but didn't go away.

I cut open the oil filter but not sure what you guys are suggesting I do now with a vise???

I can see inside the fins of the filter media and I'm not finding any additional metal parts within the fins of the old filter.

I've also drained all the old oil into a brand new walmart tupperware and I will check it with a magnet tomorrow.

It's not enough metal shavings to alarm me, does it alarm anyone else? I'm thinking this is normal for a refreshed engine?

Hopefully you can see the shavings on the plug, they are silver metal in color and are curled like a cedar wood whittler would create, tightly curled and only a single curl without a tail....Then there are smaller metal bits attached.

I'm wondering now if this BRAND NEW noise might be somewhat normal???

Why would a noise just popup if it's normal?

 

[vegas39]

It would alarm me, I've never seen metal shavings come out of an oil pan.
Something definately isnt right.

 

[gonecrazyi]

Thats a lot of shavings!

I dont really think youll know what there from until you open up the motor or get the oil analysis back.

 

[ferrellmedia]

If it makes a difference, this is the first 2k miles on the rebuilt motor.

I'm trying to find a silver lining....