Electrical Gremlins...

[saburai]

I've been a bit plagued by some electrical anomalies! Cruise control quit, mysterious e4od trouble codes and the most baffling (to me at least), I'm still having starting problems! Intermittently - 1 in 15, sometimes 2-3x in a row, I'll turn the key and although the fender mounted solenoid clicks, the starter doesn't crank. If I jump the terminals on the underhood solenoid - nothing. If I unbolt the starter solenoid lead and touch it to battery hot it starts every time. New NAPA starter (x2) and I've swapped the under hood solenoid between the original and a new NAPA unit with no change. The perplexing issue is that if I attempt to jump the connection. the starter wire and battery hot when the wires are attached to the solenoid I get nothing but when I remove the starter solenoid wire and touch it to the hot side it fires right up. Any suggestions?

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To be clear, the lose wire, normally on the left terminal in the picture is what I'm referring to above.

 

[snicklas]

Sounds like a bad connection in the heavy wire to the starter. Moving the wire from the solenoid to the battery moves the entire cable. Maybe even a loose or broken stud on the starter mounted (bending) solenoid. I’ve had them completely break loose from the Bakelite down there. Move just right, won’t start. Move the wire, or slam the hood or door, and it starts working for a while.

 

[saburai]

Thanks Scott. The cable is in great shape and the starter is new. I initially thought it was a faulty starter, so I pulled it and exchanged it at NAPA. When the no start condition occurs, if I unbolt the starter solenoid exciter wire and touch it to the right terminal (battery hot) it starts as it should on first contact every time. However, If I attempt to start it by jumping the terminal lugs on the solenoid w/o disconnecting the exciter wire it won't start...

 

[Chief]

Not much experience with auto electrical but my mind is saying maybe you’re grounding out somewhere along the way?

 

[retiredinhomer]

unplug angle connector and connect 12v to relay after you have hooked it all back up normally. That is how you normally bump engine over without having key on.

 

[laserjock]

For us Tapatalk users, what year is your truck? There were pretty significant wiring changes in 92.

I would do a couple things. Check the grounding of your starter relay. It grounds through the base. I believe there should be a ground to the fender but it may be missing.

Your issues may or may not be related. The power for the cruise and the ignition switch may come from the same fusible link wire. I don’t have schematics handy. You’ve wallered them (the link wires) messing with the starter relay. You may have one that’s mostly broken and it’s not supplying enough current to the relay to pull the coil in fully every time. Next time it does it take the advice above and gently pull the signal wire off (trying not to jiggle things much) the relay and jump it to the hot side post. If it starts, it’s likely on the hot side. If not, could be a ground side issue. Jump the mount of the relay to the bat neg post. Is your engine ground in good shape?

Just some things to try.

 

[saburai]

unplug angle connector and connect 12v to relay after you have hooked it all back up normally. That is how you normally bump engine over without having key on.

For us Tapatalk users, what year is your truck? There were pretty significant wiring changes in 92.

I would do a couple things. Check the grounding of your starter relay. It grounds through the base. I believe there should be a ground to the fender but it may be missing.

Your issues may or may not be related. The power for the cruise and the ignition switch may come from the same fusible link wire. I don’t have schematics handy. You’ve wallered them (the link wires) messing with the starter relay. You may have one that’s mostly broken and it’s not supplying enough current to the relay to pull the coil in fully every time. Next time it does it take the advice above and gently pull the signal wire off (trying not to jiggle things much) the relay and jump it to the hot side post. If it starts, it’s likely on the hot side. If not, could be a ground side issue. Jump the mount of the relay to the bat neg post. Is your engine ground in good shape?

Just some things to try.

Thanks Gents!
Raylan is a January '94 production f250 idit 4x4 e4od with 155,000mi on the clock. I had the opportunity to do some more diagnostics! When I went out to attempt to trouble shoot the cruise, I thought I'd start it since it was sitting for a day and it *seems* to act up when it's been sitting . It,wouldn't start, so I grabbed the multimeter. The fender mounted solenoid *seems* to be doing what it should be doing. I had my lovely wife Marketa turn the key, and indeed the solenoid tripped with an audible click and the meter showed that it was delivering voltage, but no starter engagement. I crawled under with the meter and found good voltage at the heavy primary starter cable and with Marketa turning the key, voltage at the solenoid hot, but still no start. Went back up top and jumped the solenoid battery hot to the ignition lug - no start. Jumped as before, directly to the hot and on the second touch it started
I'm wondering about the fusible links as well. I wish I could locate them and I wish that electrical trouble shooting was one of my strengths...
I'll provide the details of the cruise control diagnosis fiasco in the morning in the other thread...

 

[laserjock]

The fusible links are right there off the hot post.

 

[chillman88]

I crawled under with the meter and found good voltage at the heavy primary starter cable and with Marketa turning the key, voltage at the solenoid hot, but still no start. Went back up top and jumped the solenoid battery hot to the ignition lug - no start. Jumped as before, directly to the hot and on the second touch it started

So this is what, the THIRD starter you've tried? (Original starter, NAPA starter, replacement NAPA starter) At this point all I can possibly think is the signal wire from the fender solenoid to the starter solenoid must have an internal short somehow. It doesn't take a high gauge wire to get a voltage signal through but a short would deprive the solenoid of the amperage/wattage required.

I know the wire looks good, but you've replaced everything else a couple times. The way you describe it that is all that makes sense. I can't possibly imagine you would have another dead starter.

 

[saburai]

The fusible links are right there off the hot post.

Thanks! I don't have a FSM, would you be able to tell me how many I'm looking for and/or a way to identify them?

 

[saburai]

So this is what, the THIRD starter you've tried? (Original starter, NAPA starter, replacement NAPA starter) At this point all I can possibly think is the signal wire from the fender solenoid to the starter solenoid must have an internal short somehow. It doesn't take a high gauge wire to get a voltage signal through but a short would deprive the solenoid of the amperage/wattage required.

I know the wire looks good, but you've replaced everything else a couple times. The way you describe it that is all that makes sense. I can't possibly imagine you would have another dead starter.

Agreed. At some point in the very near future, right after we get set up on Pine Island, I'll make up a new wire. Even though the present one looks great and the way I'm starting it when the malfunction occurs is to touch it to battery hot...

 

[Selahdoor]

Try jum

Agreed. At some point in the very near future, right after we get set up on Pine Island, I'll make up a new wire. Even though the present one looks great and the way I'm starting it when the malfunction occurs is to touch it to battery hot...

The next time it happens, try jumping that connection with jumper cables, if you can. Then try to start it normally.

 

[saburai]

Try jum

The next time it happens, try jumping that connection with jumper cables, if you can. Then try to start it normally.

Good idea!

 

[Noiseydiesel]

Not too long ago I was chasing errant voltages on my truck. Including a blown fuse on the cruise control. I found a few low voltages and once I removed and cleaned the 6 or 8 body grounds, down to bare metal and then greased up, my problems went away. bad tach, cruise control, you might be surprised at what doesn't work with bad grounds.

 

[ISPKI]

I have recently started having a similar issue. Loud thud from the solenoid but not cranking. I checked my engine grounds and all seemed fine where they connected to the frame and engine. + cables seemed OK although all of the terminals have corrosion at the battery.

After checking on wire connections for a bit, I went back and tried to crank it and suddenly it works. That has happened two days in a row now where sometimes it cranks and sometimes it doesnt. Still at a loss as to why.

Could anyone identify body ground straps? I only know of two in the engine bay.