Electric Lift Pumps, IP and Injection Timing

[crash-harris]

Since we have a few threads open right now about injection timing and the fact that I'll be installing a Duralift pump soon, I thought it might be a good time to get some clear as mud info on the subject

I've been reading that increased fuel pressure from an electric pump can change the IP's timing. Since my Duralift is rated from 9-11.5 PSI, I'm curious if that would throw my injection timing way off. Comments?

 

[laserjock]

By the time it drops across the filter you should be within tolerance but it would seem prudent to set timing in the configuration you plan to run.

 

[Clb]

Still waiting on Mel chiming in on the other thread.
But I second the above motion!
Once I get mine sorted out ( fsv sticking) and hook up my carrier!
I'll meter it b-4 and after... Don't hold yer breath.
I'll post the stats in my fav ( make that fsv)thread. Geeze ifail.

 

[crash-harris]

Glad I wasn't misinterpreting. I'm curious how much my timing will change when I get the new body back on and get the Duralift setup. I think I'll do a before and after video for my personal reference. I'm hoping I'll be able to rent one of icanfixall's meters and get the new setup timed before I go back to work. Got a tip from a buddy today that didn't get laid off that they've been recalling about 7 people a day. I'm hoping to hold out until at the very least the end of June so I can get all the truck work done and enjoy my wedding. I'm only planning on ever having one

 

[Clb]

Well done!
Congrats.
Somewhere there is a post.... Something about every 1 psi backs timming so many degrees.

 

[crash-harris]

If that's the case, I could bump the IP advanced if I really have to before getting a meter on it. IIRC, new injectors with old pump will read retarded anyway. Better than being way too advanced.

 

[Shawn MacAnanny]

I was concerned about the same thing as well as varying pressure so i am putting a swagelok 5 psi poppet valve on the return line from my injeciton pump feed line that bleeds air (you could put it at top of your filter return). You could also install a holley fuel pressure regulator which i also considered. Mel calibrates the pumps at 5psi from what i read so i think it would be ideal to ensure a consistent pressure is maintained

http://www.swagelok.com/en/catalog/Product/Detail?part=SS-4C-5

This will also ensure there is a constant 5psi on my injection pump rather than having an open air vent and constant return like on the stock filter. It'll be constantly returning but only that which is above 5psi so it'll bleed air but keep the charge pressure of the pump up.

 

[icanfixall]

Checking the fuel pressure AFTER the filter is one of the best ideas we have for knowing what the actual pressure the injection pump is seeing. Mel did run many pressure tests and posted them in this forum some years ago. Sadly I don't know where they are now but they are somewhere. Also knowing the inlet and outlet pressure readings are is very nice to have. It tells you how plugged up the filter is. Its called delta P and delta T pressure readings and there is a special gauge designed for this reading.

 

[gandalf]

I do remember that there was a thread/article, in the far far distant past, about the effect of various pressures on timing. I'm pretty sure Mel started the thread or was at least a major contributor. The real job, and it will be a significant effort, is to find that thread. It's been a number of years. My memory tells me that the increase in input pressure does effect timing.

 

[crash-harris]

I'll start searching for that thread. If I find it, I'll link it in here as well.

My setup now has an electric sender tee'd into the filter head with the pressure switch and I'll have a fluid dampened pressure gauge on the electric lift pump itself. If one was to install a pair regulator, we're would be the best place for it? Right before the filter head I'm guessing?

 

[Shawn MacAnanny]

i would put the regulator in the return line from the filter. That's essentially where im putting mine on the setup i made. You still want to bleed air before it gets to IP from the highest point (filter) and you still want to be controlling the charge pressure to IP. So if you put it at 5psi before filter and as filter clogs it might drop to 2 or 3psi after, but if you put it after filter, are supply 8 or 9psi to filter, it'll maintain 5 psi after filter regardless of how clogged filter is until it gets clogged enough to prevent 5psi from passing through.

 

[JLtoolman]

You must be registered for see images attach

Engine idling, same pump you are using. The fuel pressure is not a problem.
The pressure is 7 psi with engine off. This was when the pump was new. In have not looked at the pressure lately.

 

[crash-harris]

You must be registered for see images attach

Engine idling, same pump you are using. The fuel pressure is not a problem.
The pressure is 7 psi with engine off. This was when the pump was new. In have not looked at the pressure lately.

What was the part number on your pump? I ordered a 40222. Im getting my pressure ratings from the site that I purchased the pump from. I'm noticing on th3ir site that the 40285 has a max pressure of 7 psi.

http://www.pilotshop.com/catalog/ep...erm=05-10889&gclid=CO7U59-p4ssCFVFZhgod9p0Eig

 

[IDIoit]

as i remember, i went through many a trouble shooting iders when i first installed my bull moose.
i had one of garys meters here, and i went from a mechanical @ 3 psi to a electric @ 8 psi.
timing didnt change, but performance did!

 

[crash-harris]

That's good to know.

Now after looking at the specs via pilotshop's website, I'm curious if the pump I got is going to work right and last when I mount it on the inner fender. The lift min. dry shows 60" (5') and the 40285 shows double that...but it does say "lift min. dry. Maybe I should look directly at Facet's website instead of second guessing myself!

EDIT: 40222 has the same "average wet lift" as the 40285, but pilotshop got the pressure ratings right at least. When in doubt, go straight to the source.

http://www.facet-purolator.com/cat_part_finder.php