Electric air intake heater?

[rhkcommander]

Came up with the idea that it might help on a cold start - combustion is done by pressure and warmth... I got the giant banks turbo filter housing so I can cram something in it since i use a different filter setup now. Just pushbutton like the glowplugs or have it share the gp button, heat the air for the cylinders/etc.

Anyone done this on their idi's? I coulda swore some other diesel motor had this but I am forgetfull...

 

[MR.T]

I have a Cummins in a Dodge PU that uses an air heater rather then glow plugs. That's probably the engine you are thinking of.

 

[rhkcommander]

Sounds like you've got it right, I've been looking around for a dc air heater but I haven't found anything suitable yet... I will post pictures of my custom switch panel - I am gonna use a latching push button with obnoxious blinking light for the air heater if/when I get a chance to do it

The main reason I am thinkin of the air heater is to make it easier to start and keep from frying my GP's - this engine isn't in great shape but starts alot better and reliably now after the starter/batts, I just want to give it that extra startup oomph'
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looks like a grid heater from those dodge's would work good, apparently ford has them on the scorpions too but only to aid in non-smoking on cold running...? I also saw some that burned diesel to heat them up on tractors...

 

[88beast]

well its a good idea but i havnt used it personally
it works on the dodges
you got the right place for it i think thatll give a good heat
put it on a seperate switch from the gps gps will be needed in really cold i think but a cummins heater would work
or get one for an old gasser they used them back in the day too
you could use a small one just to prolong the gps so when its too cold but not freezing use the grid heater

 

[MIDNIGHT RIDER]

CONTRARY to popular belief, the INTAKE GRID HEATERS on the 1989-1998 Dodge/Cummins have absolutely nothing to do with starting the engine.

Their sole purpose is to lessen cold start emissions by warming the intake air.

There are four sitting in my yard at this moment that have all had those heaters dis-connected for many years and they will fire at the first touch of the starter on the coldest mornings.

Most all original Dodge/Cummins owners/drivers got their first diesel experience in an IDI Ford that actually required them to "WAIT TO START"; when they got the Dodges and they also had the "WAIT" indicator, they just assumed that they also had glow-plugs and not waiting would cause some sort of nuclear holocaust or somesuch.

The Dodge/Cummins grid-heaters are real power-suckers, with two 6-AWG cables feeding twin high-amperage solenoid-relays.

With only one Group-31 battery on a ZERO morning, those heaters can suck the life out of the battery and it then be TOO WEAK TO START.


E-Bay usually has several of the heaters and sometimes the solenoids listed by people that have removed them for the same reasons that I have dis-connected mine.

I have never known either the grid-heaters or the solenoids to fail, so they must be some quality stuff.


Again, just so there is no mis-guidance, the intake heater in the Cummins has no bearing whatsoever on starting the engine, regardless of outside temperature.




That being said, in an IDI that actually does require glow-plugs to start, you may very well be on to something.

The best location for the grid would be in the intake-hat of a turboed engine, or directly inside the filter-housing of the original design NA engine.

The solenoid-relays would also be required.


This system would best be served by a separate isolated battery, such that the starting batteries would not suffer from the huge current draw.


My old 2-cylinder Mitsubishi tractor has a very similar intake heater system and will not easily fire on a hot summer day without it.


I would like to see the concept tried on an IDI; who knows, it may be a better replacement for the troublesome glow-plug system.

 

[snowman89]

i had an intake heater installed on my idi and i will tell you it will have its best results after the turbo. if you go before it can't keep the air hot enough by the time it reaches the cold intake manifold.

 

[82F100SWB]

The Superduty 7.3 PSD's ran a heater in the intake spider. I can't tell you if it actually makes a difference, as the solenoid for it on my 00 was fried the entire time i had the truck...
As for the Cummins grids, I can second that, I learned my lesson first winter I had it, past about 0F, if I forgot to plug it in, the first thing I do is unplug them. It still fires right up, it just doesn't run as clean. Industrial apps of the 5.9 don't even have them....

 

[Diesel JD]

I was going to mention that the Cummins just don't need them to start right, but the Cummins guys beat me to it. Several people have floated this idea. I can't imagine it sucks down a lot more power than the glow plugs but maybe I don't know what I'm talking about. I wonder if the heater grids draining the batts was a problem on newer 2 battery system Cummins trucks that had them? I don't know, if so, it probably could be more trouble than it's worth if not then maybe the IDI wouldn't even notice the power loss being built for glow plugs and the electric system designed with that in mind.

 

[rhkcommander]

Yeah I've been reading that they restricted airflow alot and were just for emissions as you guys said, I think it might be worth investigating though - I don't plan on using to to replace the GP system but perhaps just work alongside them if I do it.
From reading, each heating element draws 95 amps at 12 volts, I got dual 1000cca group 31's now with the 3g alt. I'll keep researching this further, I got an intercooler for my turbo so if I add it, it would be easy to put the heaters after the turbo.

I also found an aftermarket heater but too spendy for my blood

 

[MIDNIGHT RIDER]

From reading, each heating element draws 95 amps at 12 volts,

Don't forget that one grid contains two elements.


There is a reason why I have not completely removed the grids from my intakes.

Installed as they are in a Cummins, they make a fine last line of defense for any errant bolts, nuts, or mice that might happen to get into the air-stream.

 

[hayisforhorses]

beg to differ on starting 24valve cummins without grids in extreme cold. owned one for 10 years now and it will not start in canadian weather without letting grid heater cycle. just my expierience not trying to pic a fight just relating my own expierience

 

[hesutton]

the intake heater in the Cummins has no bearing whatsoever on starting the engine, regardless of outside temperature.

Thanks for posting this Damon. I was going to post something similar. Direct and Indirected injected diesels are different animals and compairing the two different designs cold starting habits is apples to oranges. The DT466 I have for my special project has zero cold starting aids other than your standard block heater. No glow plugs, no grid heater, none of that. Dad's had a lot of experience with these DT466's both mechanical and electrical (HEUI) injected. He said it didn't matter how cold it got, the mechanical DT's would fire right off without a problem, without the block heater plugged in. The DT466E's would be a rear bear to start cold. The block heater would help some, but not much. Why they addition of the HEUI electrical injection system would mess with cold starts........I don't know, but the old mechanical DI diesels seem to do very well when cold.

Heath

 

[Rot Box]

^ I agree with hayisforhorses ^

I'm honestly surprised by some of the comments made here I have owned several Cummins 12v and 24v VP trucks and if it came down to it I could easily drain the batteries from cranking before they would ever even think about starting in cold weather below 15*. EDIT: without using the grid heater.

My brother has an industrial 5.9 in his F350 and it originally came with ether injection--so no heater. The ether system was removed before the motor was put in the Ford. Without any starting aids that truck is a royal b*$ch to start when cold.

To the op. Grids are nice but a good set of glow plugs and a working system preform very well in the cold stuff why fix something that isn't broke?

 

[82F100SWB]

Thats very strange... A buddy of mine has a 99 that he bought brand new, the grids on it haven't worked in about 10 years, and it's his plow truck for bush roads, so, it can sit out in -30 for weeks at a time and it always starts...
Another buddy of mine has an 01 that they weren't working on last winter(heavily corroded cables...) and it'd still fire, not the happiest, as that one is a former company bush truck that ran 24/7 in the winter most of it's life, and is way up there on hours.
What do you run for oil in the winter?
I go to 0W40 in everything I own for the winter, as do most of the locals, which may be why we have abnormal results.
Heck, my old Powerstroke would start on one cycle of the glows at -38 not plugged in....

 

[Rot Box]

What do you run for oil in the winter?

Good call. This might be the answer to my bad luck without the heaters as I usually use 15w-40 year around. I'm convinced the help though. I have skipped the wait to start light a few times out of curiosity and they sound about like an IDI does when you fire it off of ether