E-Series Fender removal- ONE bolt away...

[SDEconVan]

Rain season is coming and I've got a cowl drain leak on the DS. Fender needs to come off so I
can check the seams sealing (or flowing, after our last short rain,) the water from going into the
DS footwell/kick area. It wets my carpet in the Left Kick area every time. The spot stinks of mold,
the metal below is getting rustier and rustier- a hole is coming soon.

Got a manual. You know how it says, "Remove the 3 upper bolts, then 3 inside the wheel well" blah blah...

they never tell you how hard it is going to be getting some of those suckers out!

...well, everything was easy-peasy, like to the point I was laughing how easy it was, until I got to literally
the LAST BOLT!

I've worked on a lot of stuff, and I don't see how I can access this bolt/nut combo. In fact, I don't see how
the factory could have put it in!!!

Ford must have welded the panels around this bolt AFTER it was tightened in place, then painted it and called it a day.

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Passenger's Side (didn't want to walk into the street the local school was letting out and the Soccer Mom's
speed through the residential areas.) Note the fender is very easily accessible from all sides... ...except
at the Front/Bottom, just above the bumper.

Bolts never been removed before:

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and like I said, easy-peasy. I was laughing aloud, I think.

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Yep, I was laughing.

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(Black bolt connects to Rad Supp.)
Closer, wait for it...

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(View from underneath, looking forward)
Lowest/Front pinch bolt, wait for it...

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There!

You can't see it because it is behind the spot juuust above the chrome bumper, that little
seam of white paint, outboard of the amber light. I can't get a decent pic of the last ONE bolt, because you'd
need a butt scope to slide in there to see it, and I loaned mine out. But trust me there is a nut/bolt
fastener pinching together the fender to the valence, a lot like the one below it, EXCEPT it has a double wall
construction and the fastener is INSIDE this space.

From what I can just barely see, it's impossible. I had to bend the fender away from the body to just
get a visual on it. No way a wrench can get on it, from either side.

So,

before I get a holesaw, plasma, cut-off wheel, does anyone know where the secret hatch is to get this
bolt? Or do I have to do something like remove the engine or flip the van over or something?

It's supposed to mist tonight so I should be okay but any advice on how to go after this pesky thing would
be appreciated!

Thanks in advance.
(Fire away.)

Best regards,
George

 

[riotwarrior]

Remove grillw anf bumper??? I would bet

 

[SDEconVan]

"Remove grillw anf bumper??? I would bet"

I'll pull those next chance I get. To be honest the location of the bolt is away from the grille,
and the nut is above the bumper, they are not near either one. I guess I can hope an opening
for a wrench presents itself, that would be boss...!

 

[snicklas]

You may have to remove the amber turn signal and signal bucket. Maybe even the headlight and bucket.... Since you can see it from the top, that may be the next step.......

 

[79jasper]

Wouldn't a leak like that come from the windshield?

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[fsmyth]

I replaced a passenger side years ago on an E350 I had. Don't remember any
particular difficulty.

 

[SDEconVan]

Hey Snicklas,

I'm going to remove the grille and then see if the turn signal/bucket might reveal something. Nothing in the manual about it, but
that doesn't mean too much. More digging.

Hi 79jasper,

Got a new windshield 2 months ago, the guy gooped it really good, and said the body/frame looked really good (?)

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Paint was real fresh too. However,

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When I did the windshield, found a ton of trash inside the cowl... (vac'd it out, ran a wand down the inside of the DS
chamber at that time, didn't get is all, which is why I am pulling the fender.)

*Vehicle was in a shed (holes in the roof) for 20+ years.

Hi fsmyth,

Might vary a bit with the year, mine is 1985, Driver's Side. The only way I can see the bolt is by bending the fender out,
then I can see the metal tab of the fender connected to the lower valence, and I can see the head of the bolt.

Still dumbfounded. Maybe there is an access hole (like snicklas is suggesting.)

Thanks.
Best regards,
George

 

[idi_econoline]

Dang. Only pulled later model ones, with no problems.

We van owners are a tough, persistent bunch. Looking forward to reading how this plays out, George. Good luck to you!

 

[asmith]

Maybe pull the fender out a little bit and use super long extensions with a universal on there too?? No idea just tossing it out.


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[bbjordan]

What Al said. ^^^

I recently replaced the front bumper and valence on the '86 I sold. I know the bolt you talk of. On mine, there was a Phillips screw, as well, holding the valence to the fender. I did have the grill and headlight plastic out as it was being replaced too. I don't recall it being any more difficult than any of the rest of it.

 

[SDEconVan]

Thanks idi_econoline, I can't wait to get back on this and come up with answers...

Hi asmith, yeah I pulled my fender back (about 5-6" gap at the top) like bending it pretty hard, and I can just barely get
a line of sight to see that it is in fact a fastener. I don't think I can get a drinking straw down in there, can't get a decent
photo to show it.

Hi bbjordan, mine is a what looks like a 1/4-20 x 1-1/4 bolt with a nut, the lowest and most forward fastener is a Phillips
head and was real easy to get to.

I plan on replacing the grille anyways, so next chance probably a couple days I will pull the grille and as mentioned the
turn signal, and see if an opening shows up. Here is a shot of the Phillips on mine, the lowest furthest forward fastener:

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(The little fastener holds the wheel well trim piece, furthest forward, covered by bumper on the outside. The bigger screw
is the Phillips we speak of. View looking forward on DS, fender is to your left, valence is above, bumper is background/below.)

Here is the only shot I got of the area the offending fastener is at:

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(I had the grille and turn sig pulled back as one piece, headlight remains on radiator support.)

Right now I can see no other holes. Strangest thing, I usually get these things done...

Thanks for input, it's getting me fired up, and I will attack this thing. I'll get more pics as well.

Best regards,
George

 

[SDEconVan]

****************Got the fender off****************

I followed your advice and took the grille off today. I waited for some retainers to come before I
started, the ones that go across the top of the grille,

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It came with a bunch maybe 50, I'll need 9 at a time so I'm good for a few times removing the grille in the future.
Anyways I realized to get the grille off meant drilling out the original retainers,

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Then remove the remaining Phillip's screws, I think 4 or 5 of them,

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(here I'm trying to show where the fastener is, it looks easy in the photo but my hand was too big to
fit in there, see the white reservoir, and I had to use a 1/4" drive wrench.) I barely could get turns on
the wrench and kept dropping it, that little petite wrench just fit in there, it was pushed up against the
rad support (black.)

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Tab of the Valence that's holding the bolt, is BENT quite a bit, I pushed it into a "Z" shape to wrench it
better. The new fastener will be a large Phillip's screw and J-tab from Help!

*IF the fastener was a Phillip's like it was supposed to be, a long screwdriver would do it. This side had
a nut and long bolt, not factory looking, and I had to bend the fender off to get a good angle to slip the
socket onto the bolt. The Passenger's Side had NO bolt or screw, whomever worked on that probably
gave up. That said, the PS looks WAY EASIER, if you have to do this, save your energy for the DS.

With possible light rain due here in less than 48 hours, I was real glad to get the fender off! The last two
rains SOAKED my carpet and the anodized trim in the foot step well was corroding quite a bit already!

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Overview with the fender off, now I can search for the source of the leak(s)

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Fastener Layout. I marked the problem bolt with a square. Note the "pocket" that bolt lives in is practically
sealed on all sides, with about 1/4" slit to get a wrench on the screw.

I suppose I could remove the overflow reservoir, but that's a PITA as I've done it when I refurbed the
battery trays. Maybe I'll use Velcro in place of the bolt.

********************

May as well take this opportunity to show WHY I had to get the fender off in the first place.

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Rain/water gets collected in the cowl (RED) which in this E-Series, is a "tub" that runs the full width of
the body/hood. The drain, however, is not symmetric, and drains (I think,) ONLY to the Driver's Side,
since I have not found an opening flowing off the Passenger's Side. *I may be wrong on this...
The water goes to the vertical port (YELLOW) and is voided out the Flapper Valve (BLUE)

I found two things. First DEBRIS on a HUGE scale, the yellow port was 3/4 full with compacted leaves,
dirt, snail casings, mouse turds and other great stuff to make a quiche with... I don't see how water
could drain through it! Second, I found a rust hole in the tub of the cowl about 1/4" DIA just below
the wiper mount/doubler (GREEN.) The hole is INSIDE the cowl/port, not on the surface shown by the green circle.
When parked slightly uphill, water finds this low spot and leaks inside the cab.

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Flapper Valve, supposed to let water out. Ford is so funny sometimes, they put this little doggy door as
the drain, and basically it doesn't work. Water will go, debris backs up, rust ensues, then a guy like
me comes along...

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I got 4 small dustpans full of this! Never seen anything like it.

The temporary fix is silicone the hole (GREEN) shut, and remove the debris. After this rain I will verify
then put a solid fix using Ospho/grinder/proper sealant and maybe something like POR-15 or similar
to line the Cowl "tub" and vertical port. Maybe shoot Boe-Shield or other wax/oil spray to coat it all
after I blast it clear. No time now and need to gather the right fixins.

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View inside the Flapper Valve, surface rust, still structure though to coat over when I get a chance.

Wish me luck!
Thank you Forum Members for your help!
Best regards,
George

 

[79jasper]

What if you removed the flapper valve? Would that prevent the buildup of debris?

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[riotwarrior]

Flapper capper keeps rodents out better n no flapper

Just sayin

 

[cpdenton]

Glad you have it figured out.

I am fighting a similar issue, but it's on a 1977 corvette. They have a wiper cowl that goes side to side. Guess what GM used from the factory to seal the seams?

That's right, roofing asphalt! We also have the side drains backed up with nastiness. Once this rain quits, I am thinking about trying some of the rattle can flex-seal instead of roofing asphalt.

Good luck with yours!