Dana 60 swap DONE! Thanks to Rick (riphip)! What a difference!

[mattplumber]

Spent all day yesterday swapping in my dana 60 that i picked up a couple of months back and replacing several other well worn componets as well.
I was truly in shock at how bad the front end was in my truck. I had been without power steering for a little over a month, and the truck wandered the road like a drifter high on drugs. The steering box was beyond shot as well as all the steering linkage, ujoints, ball joints, brakes, pivot bushings, springs, basically everything under the front end was garbage. It all "fell" apart relatively easily and went back together fairly smooth with the exception of some frozen brakelines that took some massaging to get apart and back together.
I would have never been able to get this done, at least by myself without the assistance of Rick, the only other member on this board who is local here and whom i've ever met face to face.

I truly didnt realize how terrible my truck was until i got to drive it home last night! The steering is like a dream! The truck doesnt shake, vibrate, rattle, or worst of all bottom out anymore like it did with the d50 stuff. Why o why Ford ever installed the junk under a 3/4 ton truck is beyond me. It probably worked ok when it was brand new, but it seems to me that due to its inherent design, once one component fails the rest of the associated components are EXTREMELY short lived which leads to a labor intensive and costly rebuild.

The best part is that i thought the front end was going to sit noticiably higher than the rear which turned out not to be the case. It is higher, but only by an inch at the most. It really sits level in my opinion.

The only problem that I noticed is that when I went to take the truck to the alignment shop this am, i has a puddle of gear oil under my passenger tire. Im guessing that one of the axle seals had dried out from the axle sitting on the shelf for so long before i acquired it. Any idea whats involved in replacing these?

 

[SparkandFire]

So you're saying the D50 design is what was causing all of your driveability issues, when in reality the whole system was completely worn out?

If you think about it, the D50 only has one additional component that the D60 is without (that being the center U-Joint) Ok, so the axle has pivot bushings, but the D60 has track bar bushings that I have seen wiped out too. I have also had the pleasure of driving (and replacing) trucks with worn king pins, which can be a ***** as well. Everything has its pro's and con's.

Im not saying that the D60 is a bad system, hell out here everyone wants one. I just think that, before you condemn Ford for the D50 design you should understand that everything wears out. I replaced damn near every bushing,ball joint, u-joint, tie rod, etc on my truck and it too drives like a dream. It's certainly not the best design to roll off of the Ford assembly line, I just think it gets alot of bad rap from folks who stick a fork in it before trying to solve the root problem (that being worn out components.)

 

[gonecrazyi]

Great to hear everything worked out for you. Enjoy the new axle.

 

[mattplumber]

My therories on its design flaws are rooted in knowing how a front drive axle functions and articulates (or how it at least does it best) and the way the d50 is required to move and suspend a 3/4 ton truck while constantly supporting a massive 444ci diesel plant.

The old saying that the more parts you add to something to build it, the more parts that can fail. The dana 60 is a traditional front axle in the sense that it is a monobeam design which is one of the toughest things going- as far as 4wd axles are concerned and anyone well versed and experienced to 4wd's would know how its designed and how to diagnose/repair its problems/components.
The dana 50 is by no means impossible to figure out or repair, just a huge pain when you have to.

i've owned 3 ttb trucks. 2 f-250's and 1 bronco. The bronco rode, handled, and just plain lasted longer than the 250's did in terms of suspension parts and wear because of 2 things: springs and engine weight.
The design of the 2 suspensions systems were identical except for the addition of leaves to the 250 which in my opinion leads to its excessive wear. The springs fatigue at an accellerated rate due to the engine's weight which in turn causes alignment and steering issues which given time destroy the bushings, joints, tires, steering componets, etc.

Im not saying the dana 60 wont have problems, but everything is essentially new on my rig now and its got a tougher axle, and its just plain better! I love it! Could I have rebuilt the d50? Of course. I just had another option and I went with it.....................

 

[alienturtle]

The only problem that I noticed is that when I went to take the truck to the alignment shop this am, i has a puddle of gear oil under my passenger tire. Im guessing that one of the axle seals had dried out from the axle sitting on the shelf for so long before i acquired it. Any idea whats involved in replacing these?

Sorry to say it man but you must take the entire axle back apart to change the seal. The diff cover must be taken off and the gear carrier has to be pulled out. You cant get the carrier out unless you take the axles out. You cant get the axles out unless you take the lockers, hubs, spindles, and brakes all back off. Understand what im getting at The seals lie inside the tube right inside the diff. A ***** to change unless you have the press tool to do it. Good thing is you will not have to worry about shims or anything like that when you pop the carrier out. The shims are all pressed behind the bearings. You MIGHT need a case spreader tool if your carrier is really stuck in there. I was able to pop mine up with the help of 2 huge pry bars. I just installed my Dana 60 yesterday as well and did both seals while i had it apart on the bench cheers

 

[SparkandFire]

My trouble with the D60 axle is the $1000 plus price tag for it (out here anyway...)

There's other stuff I can buy for that. Like intercooler, airbags, etc etc etc.



No doubting that the D60 is a good axle, a majority of the "tires chewed up" complaints the D50 gets are due to the toe angle changes during steering. Once your lift height goes a little above factory spec, the tie rod angles are too steep, then during turns the toe changes significantly.

I spent a good deal of time working at a high quality tire/alignment shop and we had the contract for all of santa barbara/san luis obisbo county's service vehicles, so I saw many TTB trucks on the rack. If you take the time and set them up right, they will last, and they are just as bit as tough as the D60. There are way more TTB equiped fords running around out there than solid axles. Trouble is that they are all neglected and worn out after 25+ years of service. I would love to see how some of the new "chevy control arm" trucks look in 25 years...

 

[mattplumber]

Alien: so it has seals like any dana axle? Ive done 44 axle seals before and they can be a PITA but not too bad. I have pulled the carrier before so I know whats invi\olved. Tearing the axle back down isnt a big deal, getting the whole assembly under there was though................

And I do agree with the fact that the ttb is a tough axle when set up right. No doubt. I just figured that if I was going to tear it all apart and rebuild it, then I might as well put something a little better under there. Plus the value of my truck just "doubled" due to the fact that the axle is now under it. Even if its totaled tommorrow, the axle is still worth at least half of what the whole truck would bring otherwise...............

 

[alienturtle]

Alien: so it has seals like any dana axle? Ive done 44 axle seals before and they can be a PITA but not too bad. I have pulled the carrier before so I know whats invi\olved. Tearing the axle back down isnt a big deal, getting the whole assembly under there was though................

if you have poped the carrier out then all you needed to do was look right inside where the bearing races sit. in the tube right there was the seal. a big screw driver and you can pop them out. You install them from inside the diff. If you dont have the press tool then you will have to use lots of extentions and a big socket that fits on the seal. You will put the "driver" through the passenger side long tube to drive the drivers side seal in. Then go through the drivers side tube to drive the passenger seal in.

Also when purchasing the seals. If you go to napa get the seals WITH the metal cone sleeve thing on them.. The seals from kragen or what even are just a flat seal. There is nothing wrong with the seal except when you put the axle in because its flat you have to lift the axle up and get it through the seal without damaging the seal. Now the drivers side isnt so bad but the passenger side long axle is a little more of a pain. With the seals that have a metal cup looking thing on them..all you do is slide the axle in the tube and it rides up this metal ramp right perfectly into and through the seal. I was un able to find the ones with the cones at my local kragen (i wanted it now and wasnt going to hunt around) I feel i was able to get the axle through with no force and will be ok.

 

[mattplumber]

Yeah that sounds about like what I had to do on the d44 years ago. Good to know about the cone seals too. I've ruined many a land cruiser axle seal by screwing it up installing the axle shaft. Are the cone ones more expensive than the regular ones? We don't have kragens here. Just napa, car quest(my choice), and autozone-advance-oreilleys. The latter 3 sell some pretty bad junk. Napa employees are clowns around here and just pain me to deal with them. Plus my car quest ALWAYS has what I need in stock and their store is 1/3 the size of napas. Go figure.

 

[alienturtle]

yeah its kragen oreilleys here as well. I think i paid 15$ each for the seals. They are both the same. I dont think the ones with the cones are any differnent in price. Let me find you a part number from napa.....Well my internet at work is being stupid so i cant get you a link but here is the axle seal part number you need.

NOS 15692

thats direct from napas website. I think if you get rid of the NOS and put SKF and the number in google you will find the seal with the metal cone on it.

 

[KyleQ]

WAIT - drive around with your 4WD engaged (or a locked hub) to get that axle spinning. The seals will weep from sitting a long time and leak, driving on them will clean up the sealing surface and most times it will stop leaking. I got an a D60 that sat for some time and it leaked out of the driver's side a little bit. I wheeled it once and the leak went away - it's worth a try over pulling then entire axle apart, carrier included, to replace a seal.

 

[alienturtle]

good call. i didnt really think about that. The seals will dry out a bit but if you work them they may come back and seal. Then again its possible the axle is pitted itself and you will never get it to seal no matter how many seals you put in there. Or you could just not drive the seal in all the way and give it a new surface to seal.

 

[KyleQ]

I bought these for my 4x4 - they would work great on a street rig that see's salt and mud.

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Designed to prolong life of inner axle seals and keep dirt and water from entering housing.

Completely molded design with Nickel plated bodies.

Installed seal with silicon on outside, pack cavity with grease, install shaft.....done.

 

[6.9poweredscout]

I bought these for my 4x4 - they would work great on a street rig that see's salt and mud.

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Designed to prolong life of inner axle seals and keep dirt and water from entering housing.

Completely molded design with Nickel plated bodies.

Installed seal with silicon on outside, pack cavity with grease, install shaft.....done.

Is this an "outer tube to shaft seal"??? I was looking for one for a dana 60 but all I could find was for a 30 and 44.

The driver side axleshaft on the chevy 60 in the front of the scout was pitted like 80 grit sandpaper, no wonder it always leaked and took on water like the titantic!
I had a bodyman friend smooth on some jb weld and sand it down real fine...no more leaks!!

-Jon

 

[KyleQ]

Yeah - that's what you were looking for. They also have them for the tiny axles as well. I think the saddest part of working on my D70HD is when I went to work on the front axle, the D60 seemed small ;(

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