Champion Radiators for the IDI

[tbrumm]

I would like to thank everbody that weighed in on my question. I greatly appreciate your firsthand knowledge and honest input. I am going to pull my stock radiator and see if I can have the radiator shop repair it first. It is in otherwise good condition and clean - just that small annoying leak at the seam. If the shop can't fix it, I will probably go with a Champion based on this discussion. I understand that they have some "quirks" that have to be overcome when installing, but I can live with that based on the cost. It seems to be a better alternative the a new stock type radiator (shocking cost!) or taking a chance on a junk yard radiator. Again, thanks much for your honest input! Todd

 

[tbrumm]

I Know this is an old thread, but I have now purchased a Champion - hasn't arrived yet. I have finally had it with the old brass/copper radiator. Had it resoldered twice in the last year, and now the upper tank got a crack in it. Hopefully the Champion holds up better than the stocker. At any rate, it will probaly be an easier install becuase it will be lighter!

 

[HammerDown]

No personal experience, but I will say that you get what you pay for. For a radiator this size and that low of price they're for sure cutting corners somewhere. Beyond the obvious quality control problems with made in china junk there's also the hidden cutting - things like tank wall thickness, etc. I would not be at all surprised to find these things starting to leak in a few years.

Personally I would just take the old one to a reputable radiator shop and have him rebuilt it. Should cost about $100 and you'll basically get a new radiator, plus supporting local businesses and having much closer tech support if something doesn't work.

Not in my neck of the woods > > > local mom-pop old time joint wants $500 to recore my brass/copper rad.

 

[LCAM-01XA]

Since we're on the subject of aftermarket radiators, I found this here critter (linking to AutoZone's page cause linking to RockAuto is something I'm yet to master):
http://www.autozone.com/autozone/parts/_/N-9pdak?itemIdentifier=998153_0_0_

AZ has them for $280 and Rock wants around $250, so as far as cost goes they are more or less comparable to the Champions. Looking at the pictures the tanks are welded to the core, and overall shape appears to be very close to the OEM design. Dunno where the 2" or 2-1/4" thickness comes from, but Rock does say they are 4-row design. I have Spectra fuel tanks and they are made in Canada, kinda doubt the radiators also come from there but maybe at least Mexico? In any case I'm thinking the quality control may be better with a larger and better known aftermarket brand... So does anyone have personal experience with said radiators they'd like to share with the rest of the class?

 

[jrad235]

Sure. When I was in Vegas looking for my radiator, I wanted to buy a Spectra, since I've been so happy with their fuel tank so I called them to get the specs on that radiator. They said 2 ROW. No other options available for our trucks. Hence why I installed a Champion.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sgt-cu1165

 

[Fozz]

Picking up my repaired Ford radiator tomorrow, I hope it holds up. Guy is charging me $300 and giving me a year warranty (that's all Ford gives you). I had purchased a Modine 3 row replacement in the past, and even though they state the newer technology/design cools as well as the stock Ford 4 row, it doesn't. My 5'r is 11k lbs loaded, I'm already going to have to drive by the pyro once my engine and Moose Jr is installed. I don't want to have to drive by the temp guage too. I will be watching this thread though.....

 

[tbrumm]

I went with the Champion based on the fact that many on here have installed it and have had good results. My OEM radiator is in good shape (internally at least)and only has 75,000 miles on it now and I run a coolant filter. But, I have had 2 seam leaks in the last year which the radiator guy was able to solder and seal up. Now, the upper tank has small crack in it (above the seam). The radiator guy said he could silver solder a piece of brass over the crack, as he has repaired them that way before, but cost would be around $100. Between the cost of the other two repairs and the latest repair, and not knowing when the next reapir might be needed, I though a replacment radiator was in order. Plus, pulling that brass and copper monster out and reinstalling it twice in the past year has gotten really old really fast.

 

[Slade]

I'm running a Champion in my Jeep, which runs hot, and it lowered my temps by about 10deg and seems to be fine. I had to adjust the mounting a little but other than that I'm very happy.

 

[icanfixall]

No matter what the guy tells you thats selling you a 3 row its just not going to cool our engines. This is not a place where less is more no matter what. The 3 row is probably a dimple core thats SUPPOSED to slow the coolant and transfer more heat to the core. No it can't do that and now try to have it rodded out. Can't be done either. Running a quality coolant and using steam distilled water is what will keep any raditater clean from mineral drop out. Thats the white looking stuff built up around the tubes in the top rad tank. I have the Rodney Red 2 row aluminum radiater. Those rows are 1 1/ inch deep. Very few of the members here have this big well built welded and made here in the US radiater. To my door it was $640.00 about 7 years ago. Robert aka RLDSL had installed this and really liked it. He hauls a heavy 34 ft 5th wheel and its doing a great job controlling the temps. So I got one and what a differance it made for my built engine. Its an impressive built work of art. If I had a complaint its the coolant and water used. I can't easily find a slow leak because there is no minerals in the water to show the water stain tracks. You really have to look closely for a cold leak. Fin count is as important as tube count or tube size. A 12 or 13 fin per inch will not cool well enough no matter the tube or row count. I prefer 15 or 16 fins per inch for the best cooling. If anyone really has an oem radiater in thier rigs please count and post what the fins per inch are. But you have to know its what came off the assembly line for your rig. Not what the p o tells you when you got the truck. I'll bet you have a 4 row with 56 tubes total count and 15 fins per inch. The Champions are a nice modification for our rigs at a fair price.

 

[LCAM-01XA]

Sure. When I was in Vegas looking for my radiator, I wanted to buy a Spectra, since I've been so happy with their fuel tank so I called them to get the specs on that radiator. They said 2 ROW. No other options available for our trucks. Hence why I installed a Champion.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sgt-cu1165

Thanks for the info. Yes that's the same radiator, I'm mostly interested in it cause if purchased thru AutoZone it carries a good warranty and a replacement can be had anywhere in the US within 2 days free of shipping charges, which I doubt will be the case with the Champion radiators. Also, looking at pictures of the Champion rads I notice the welds leave a lot to be desired, plus there is the question of sheetmetal thickness they used. AFAIK you can't get nice looking aluminum welds if the thickness of the material ain't there, so if the Spectra welds look good then chances are the build is solid. Plus I kinda doubt that a respectable company like them would be making a product that does not perform at least as good as the factory unit, which we know can do a real good job. Guess I can always bribe my parts people with lunch and have them order a Spectra so I can inspect and measure it for tube count and fins per inch and core thickness. Speaking of, what is the core thickness of the Champions ya'll are running? Cause 2 rows in and of itself is not a deal breaker to me, as Icanfixall pointed out the tubes can be quite wide. I will also measure up my factory E-series radiator, I'd imagine the F-series will be the same, especially seeing how they are darn near identical in size and do interchange without much work at all.

 

[jrad235]

I understand. Per Spectra support, their radiator has two rows with 13 Fins per inch. Core thickness of 1 15/16". I don't remember whether he said it had plastic tanks, but I think it does since he said the picture was wrong. I'll have to measure my core real quick, but it was pretty close to factory thickness.

Someone told me use nothing less than 15 Fins per inch, but honestly, I have no idea what the champion is.

 

[icanfixall]

At least 15 fins per inch in whats required. You can but 12 or 13 fins per inch all day long but it wont cool our engines well when they are working.

 

[tbrumm]

Thanks for all the responses, Guys! The Champion came in late Saturday and I installed it on Sunday. The installation went okay with no problems and it seems to be working fine. I did install the heater hose to the transmission cooler in the bottom of the radiator as I like the idea of getting a little hot water in there before the thermostat opens. I guess that it can be debated whether or not that really helps with trans warmup, but I figure it can't hurt in this frigid Wisconsin climate. My trans runs too cool anyway with external filter and a B&M Supercooler up front. I actually run the fluid throught the filter first, then through the Supercooler and then through the cooler in the radiator to get a little heat back into the fluid. I had to get an adapter fitting to adapt the 16mm internal radiator threads to the Ford heater hose fitting. I also ditched the Champion cap for the 7lb. cap I already had. I know the 13lb. vs. 7lb. cap has been debated, but TowCat has posted before that he runs 7lb. caps on his trucks and has had no cavitation issues. With the work he must put his trucks through, that is a pretty good test. I have run the 7lb. cap for a while before installing the new radiator. The oem Motorcraft cap was 16lbs!

 

[FORDF250HDXLT]

The oem Motorcraft cap was 16lbs!

13 lbs.

 

[whiteboyslo]

13 lbs.

Correct. The cap Champion sends with the radiator (unless they've changed) is a 1.1 bar, or 16psi. OEM is 13.

I'm running a 13lb cap that has the safety release toggle built in just because the system doesn't always de-pressurize like it should and I was getting sick of coolant geysers when I went to open her up and check the level.

Mike