Can the Injection Pump (IP) suddenly fail completely?

[lakesurfer]

I thought IPs failed gradually, such as getting to where engines become hard to start or hard to keep running. Mine went from running decent (caveats below) one evening, to zip, nada, zilch two mornings later.

Question: Has anyone heard of an IP going from working ok to absolute failure?

Follow up: Other than checking GP relay output, and replacing the fuel filter, am I missing anything else simple?

I hope not and am hoping replacing the fuel filter "fixes" it. I have had IP and Injectors on my list for a while, but have been putting it off because... $800.

Here's the background info at this point:

• Truck: 1993 F350 IDIT 5-speed, 205K miles.
• It has been running decently for a while. White smoke sometimes when starting. Very little or no smoke once it warms up. Has been starting easily.
• Batteries: Replaced last year.
• Starter: Replaced last year.
  
• Fuel pump: Electric. Facet-Purolator 40223. Is pumping. No evidence of trash in filter.
• Fuel line from Steel lines at frame to Fuel pump: Translucent Diesel grade. In other words, I know there are no air bubbles in my fuel line to the pump.
• Prime @ filter head Schrader valve: Good solid stream
• Fuel filter (Motorcraft) has about 10K miles on it. I fuel only at name brand truck stops.
  
• Glow plugs and wiring harness: Brand new a this year.
• Glow plug output voltage: NOT TESTED YET, but was working fine before.
• Fuel return o-rings, caps, and hoses: Replaced this year. (mat'l by typ4)
• Valley pan: NO evidence of fuel pooling or seepage.
  
• Injection Pump solenoid: Passed the "remove the connector CLICK TEST".
• Now there is NO smoke when attempting to start.
• Cracked an IP line and cranked (once) for 20 seconds. NO evidence of FUEL (YIKES)

@Agnem
@typ4
@Thewespaul

Thanks to all.

 

[IDIBRONCO]

I don't believe that there is a yes or no answer here. It's a "yes but" answer. Sometimes, while running, something can break inside and the pump can quit. I've personally witnessed this happen. It was running, but you could tell that something wasn't right. There was a funny sound and it didn't accelerate quite smoothly. When you manually worked the lever that the throttle cable attaches to, it didn't feel like it moved as easily as it should. Of course, this all is while the engine's running. I don't believe that there is anything mechanical that can go wrong with the pump while the engine's not running. I know next to nothing about the insides of an injector pump. Maybe something inside got clogged somehow when you shut off the engine. Maybe the FSS isn't working quite right and won't open all the way for some reason. I'm just throwing out wild guesses here.

 

[lakesurfer]

I don't believe that there is a yes or no answer here. It's a "yes but" answer. Sometimes, while running, something can break inside and the pump can quit. I've personally witnessed this happen. It was running, but you could tell that something wasn't right. There was a funny sound and it didn't accelerate quite smoothly. When you manually worked the lever that the throttle cable attaches to, it didn't feel like it moved as easily as it should. Of course, this all is while the engine's running. I don't believe that there is anything mechanical that can go wrong with the pump while the engine's not running. I know next to nothing about the insides of an injector pump. Maybe something inside got clogged somehow when you shut off the engine. Maybe the FSS isn't working quite right and won't open all the way for some reason. I'm just throwing out wild guesses here.

Thank you, @IDIBRONCO. This is my daily driver. 32 mile round trip to work. There have been no funny changes in how the linkage feels.

 

[IDIBRONCO]

I wasn't trying to suggest that all internal failures will have that symptom. Just that particular one did.

 

[lakesurfer]

@IDIBRONCO : Sure. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[IDIBRONCO]

I also meant moving that linkage by hand felt odd. i don't know about with your foot on the pedal inside. That was the first start up of a fresh engine. There was a "lifetime warranty" on the pump and injectors that were bought from Ford. The customer was from Wyoming (I think, it has been over 20 years) and our shop was in Salina, Kansas. He had to buy a pump from us just to make it back home. He was not happy.

 

[lakesurfer]

@IDIBRONCO : Ah. Got it. I will try moving the linkage by hand.

 

[IDIBRONCO]

I will try moving the linkage by hand.

While the engine's running. Since it's not running, I doubt that this test will tell you anything. Again, it was just this one example of a failing pump. It may have not ever been different with yours. I'm just not wanting you to try this and say "it feels fine, it's not the pump". I was just saying that this one pump didn't make the engine run fine before it quit working. You said that your engine was running decently. Does that mean that it was running normally, or that it was running, just not great. I had a pump rebuilt by a place that wasn't one of the four known good rebuilders. It almost died on me during a trip to town. I had to crank the engine over for probably 10 seconds with the pedal to the floor in order for the engine to start. It was so low on power that I was afraid that it wouldn't get me the 18 miles back home. I could barely hold highway speed while going downhill and certainly couldn't even come close going uphill. It was still running, it didn't die on me, but it wasn't running very well.

 

[Oledirtypearl86]

Can you pull the top cover of the IP and verify the linkage for the silonoide is moving the linkage also might try to move the linkage by hand with a clean finger in my experience is if it's broke what could it hurt iv ha the top off of mine a few times

 

[lakesurfer]

@Oledirtypearl86 : I definitely will do that! Thanks!

 

[austin92]

I remember reading on here something about the shaft that drives the head/rotor has a place that’s designed to shear if it locks up.

Sometimes I feel like an idiot trying remember stuff wes says lol


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[carsonlhammond]

I remember reading on here something about the shaft that drives the head/rotor has a place that’s designed to shear if it locks up.

Sometimes I feel like an idiot trying remember stuff wes says lol


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Yeah like a narrow spot in the shaft that way it doesn’t crack the aluminum gear housing or shear the gear teeth on the cam. One simple way to tell is take off the ip and spin it by hand. You should be able to tell if it’s just completely free spinning something is wrong. In my personal experience you should have a little resistance and some little clacking sounds that I imagine could possibly be the plungers (seems the ones that clatter a LOT seem to lose power when warm and not like to hot start).

 

[Thewespaul]

Db2 driveshaft:

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Another common failure I see is the thrust washer (wave washer) wears through and actually comes apart, seizing the head eventually. Just poor fuel can seize a head or make the metering valve stick in the off position. Transfer pump regulator can stick as well and the pump won’t start, if a cheap rebuild is done likely it will has the plastic flex ring which often comes apart with our modern diesel, another reason stanadyne replaced that part. Many ways these pumps can suddenly fail, although it doesn’t happen as often as hot start issues.

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[Grange Bond]

Iv got a 1980 f150 4x4 has a 6.9 diesel been having a similar problem fuel seems to bleed/leak back to tank if sitting for a couple of days bleed filter a small amount of air. I crank it and it bleeds itself usually have had 1 occasion where it wouldn't bleed pump and injectors and after much cursing it went have started replacing the ferrel/ olives and steel lines with hosetail fittings and rubber lines also replaced return line to cure over fueling problem . On the return side of pump is a fitting with small glass bead in it make sure that's ok can cause strange problems