Buying 85 IDI ATS turbo motorhome!

[Cubey]

Isn't that what you did in the first place? I thought the shop messed up the brakes?

I tell you what if it was me I'd be really frustrated. There is exactly ONE system that you MUST have working on a vehicle, and it's the brakes. They should always be done correctly, and if you didn't already know have IMHO the highest labor rate of anything on a vehicle because of the importance of them, and how relatively easy they are to fix. I haven't been to a shop for about 18 years myself but I'm always shocked when I hear the prices people pay for a shop to do brakes. It's such a racket. I usually end up say something like, "For $850 you should have brought it here and paid me 2/3rds that price for better work!" Shoot I'd be stoked to make $300 for 3 hours of work in my driveway...

Yeah, you're right. It's just frustrating when something goes so wrong like this and a 2 day job at most turns into weeks due to having buy more and more parts as things go wrong.

Just wish me luck that the replacement spindles aren't already or don't get ruined too. There is a 30 day return policy at seller's expense but who knows how they might honor that if they get ruined when removing the spindle nuts.

 

[Selahdoor]

Yeah, you're right. It's just frustrating when something goes so wrong like this and a 2 day job at most turns into weeks due to having buy more and more parts as things go wrong.

Just wish me luck that the replacement spindles aren't already or don't get ruined too. There is a 30 day return policy at seller's expense but who knows how they might honor that if they get ruined when removing the spindle nuts.

What do you mean, return?

If they are in good shape when you get them... You got what you paid for.

Then you ruin the threads while removing the nuts.... YOU ruined them. How do you figure you have the right to return them at that point?

If I am mistaken, and that isn't what you mean, please set me right.

 

[Cubey]

What do you mean, return?

If they are in good shape when you get them... You got what you paid for.

Then you ruin the threads while removing the nuts.... YOU ruined them. How do you figure you have the right to return them at that point?

If I am mistaken, and that isn't what you mean, please set me right.

Well... it's weird that they would get ruined from just removing the nut. I didn't use power tools to remove the nuts on my original spindles. I used a socket wrench. The nuts were on there about finger tight. I also used a torque wrench set to 20 ft-lbs to put the nuts back. I followed everything by the book... but here I am with ruined spindles. It's just so confusing and frustrating. I guess this time, I will use a regular socket wrench so I can't put as much torque on the nuts since the handle isn't as long.

By no means am I trying to buy them ruin them then return them. I'm just hoping the same crazy crap doesn't happen again.

 

[Cubey]

I decided to take a $15 gamble and it paid off. The rethreading die saved both spindles!

I forgot to take a rethreading pic of the worse one but here is the RH side one after rethreading. That far in area doesn't matter, the washer sits in that area:

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I torqued the nuts to 20 foot pounds, backed them off half a turn then torqued to 5 foot pounds, as that's the smallest I can do on my 3/8" torque wrench. But, that comes out to be about 60 inch pounds when it calls for 10-15 inch pounds. So, I guess I need to redo that. The wheels aren't on it yet so it's just a matter of removing the dust caps, cotter pin and retainer. 10-15 inch founds is +/- 1 foot pound. How do you torque that low? Just finger tighten it?

Most torque wrenches are 20 inch pounds at lowest, except this one:
https://www.amazon.com/Neiko-03727A-4-Inch-Torque-Wrench/dp/B01FMXEWQC/

 

[IDIBRONCO]

I'm absolutely amazed. I thought that there was a slim chance that this one could be saved, but I would have bet money that the other one was shot. Good deal!

 

[Cubey]

I'm absolutely amazed. I thought that there was a slim chance that this one could be saved, but I would have bet money that the other one was shot. Good deal!

Yeah, I'm shocked too.

But I was like... if it doesn't work, I'm out $15 for the die (kind of, since I do have a die that I might need some day) but if it works, I don't need to spend $220 on spindles and a king pin set. I figured if they are truly ruined, the die can't make them more ruined. It would either fix them or it wouldn't. And if it were to fix one side but not the other, I'd still save some money by only replacing one spindle. Turns out it worked well on both sides!

I'll try to remember to take a pic of the LH spindle when I go back to redo the "torqueing" the nuts to fighter tight (10-15 inch pounds) after backing them off the half turn. It's not that much more to fully remove the nut and hub for a minute to take a pic of the spindle. Plus I can double check that the threads aren't giving way under the ~20 foot pounds of torque.

Maybe the threads aren't good as new, but they seem sturdy enough and looked ok to me. Only about 1/2 to 2/3 of the threads are actually used by the nut's treads, so the really trashed part where the washers were turning doesn't really matter.

I used the die on the worst side first, so maybe being a completely new die helped. It didn't take a great deal of force, just light to moderate with one hand to turn a big wrench. I carefully started it by hand and it made at least one full rotation, making sure it wasn't cross threading. I would turn it in, then out, the in, then out... repeatedly as it slowly made it's way on. I took it off and cleaned out metal bits a few times during the process also. After it bottomed against that flat step, I took it off, cleaned the spindle's threads and put on a new nut by hand and it threaded on pretty well. I did run the die over it one last time with minimal effort since the nut was slightly catching in one spot when threading it by hand. That cleaned it up and the nut threaded on entirely to the step by hand.

From what I read, the starting of a rethreading die the most important part, so that it doesn't cross thread and cut/destroy the original track. Thankfully the starting point of both spindles weren't damaged, so that worked part worked well and it properly followed the original thread.

I contacted the ebay seller asking to cancel the order, explaining that I was able to fix mine after all. He offers free return shipping but I'm trying to save us both the hassle (and him the cost). The king pin set couldn't be canceled on Crapazon due to logistics and it's now on the way, but it's free returns, so no big deal.

For anyone wanting to know what die I used: Century Drill & Tool 92916 Right Hand Rethreading Hexagon Die, 3/4-16 NF

 

[TNBrett]

10-15 inch founds is +/- 1 foot pound. How do you torque that low? Just finger tighten it?

Yes. Basically what you are trying to achieve is zero slack with zero preload. When things are the way they should be you simply finger tighten the nut, and if the cotter pin won’t line up, back the nut off just enough to get the pin through. Usually just a couple of degrees.
The instructions that call for tightening the spindle nut to a higher torque while rotating the hub are written to ensure that all the parts end up in the correct position. It’s possible for either bearing to get hung up on the spindle as you are sliding it on, or perhaps a race wasn’t pressed in fully. Torqueing the spindle nut initially helps prevent that from going unnoticed.
Once the spindle nut is on, and the cotter pin is in, grab the rotor at the top and bottom and make sure there isn’t any play. Then rotate it by hand and the only drag you should feel is from the viscosity of the grease. That is perfect.
Hope this helps

 

[Cubey]

Here is a pic I took today of the rethreaded LH side spindle threads, the side that looked totally ruined before. Both nuts were redone: torqued to 20 ft lbs, backed half a turn, finger tightened by using the socket in my hand for better grip, away from the grease.

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I got the calipers put on and the neighbor came over and bled the brakes at the calipers as I pumped the brake pedal and topped off the MC as needed. Feels like it might be good now when I did a test of going forward and backwards a few feet in the driveway.

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I went ahead and put in the new Bendix "Stop" pads since it's new rotors, so everything will be fresh and new. I'll keep the used Bendix "MetLock" ones as emergency spares. I should have probably spent the extra $10 or so for MetLok again but "Stop" look identical except for the noise control(?) back plate.

Take a look at the crap pot meal slider leaf spring thing that came with the calipers from O'Reilly. The one I put on the LH side snapped after it was together and just sitting there! I was putting the RH caliper on and I heard loud metal "click" and I thought maybe it was a failing jack stand (!!) but I went back over to look things over and I saw one end sticking way out. I put back the old one that aren't very old and look more like proper steel. Furthermore I removed the other pot metal one on the RH side I was putting in when the other snapped. So, both sides have the used ones that have been on there for 2 years without breaking.

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Second post to come about the stabilizer bushings (due to pic limit per post)

 

[Cubey]

Yucky old bushings. The lower one with the roll pin was actually still in very good shape. I had to use a big socket as a press cup with a big C clamp to press those out.

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Cleaned up the areas for the bushings with a wire cup in my drill:

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The new Moog ones for the tube part are 2 piece so they install super easy. I took a pic of them in it, but my old S7 phone likes to delete the last photo sometimes and I guess it did of the one with the new bushings. So, no pic of that sadly.


My luck with stuck, stripped nuts is bad lately. But this time it's not as big of a deal. The washers with the stabilizer bushing it weren't really all there/right. I tried using them but they weren't right, the nut never torqued because I think it reached the end of the threads and stripped out, basically like the spindles. It won't come off. Soooooo, I put the old nut on top of it since the upper threads are still good. That's good enough. The bushings are compressed pretty well and the outer nut should hold it together.

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At least that stuck/stripped nut could be split with a normal nut splitter, if I feel like doing that some day. I can reach that without removing the wheels and it's not under that much pressure so I could do it with all 4 wheels on the ground. I'll keep an eye on it and worry about that later.

On the other side, I used the old domed washers and just tightened by feel instead of trusting the torque wrench, and I think the results are much better:

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I did notice some minor play in the LH side when I was checking the wheel bearings for play, possibly the king pin since the entire knuckle has the up and down play. So it might end up needing that anyway in the next year or two. I'm not gonna do it right now, that's for sure. I need to get back on the road and out of my mom's house in the next 7-10 days, if possible. Maybe it's dumb not to just do it now since I have a kit coming already (bought when I thought the spindles were being replaced) and I could have put off the brakes for a few more days but oh well.

I would be here for the next 2-3 years if I keep chipping away at old things that need repair. It's a very minor amount of play right now so it's probably fine for the time being. I'll just have to keep a close eye on it. The RH side has no such play. If it means putting it into a shop to have that done in a couple years, so be it. I have imposed long enough on my mom and I need to go soon.

Maybe I'll go to an old slightly run down old RV park of next time I'm here in town where I know they don't care if you work on your RV, and maybe I can do the king pins myself. A month's rent there (about $350-400) is probably cheaper than a shop doing the king pins. Plus I get a month to park on grid for the money too.

 

[IDIBRONCO]

Plus the good thing is that you don't put a whole lot of miles on per year so the extra wear won't be awful.

 

[Cubey]

Plus the good thing is that you don't put a whole lot of miles on per year so the extra wear won't be awful.

I should at least add some fresh grease to the king pins. I should have wire cup cleaned the grease fittings when it was on the jack stands with wheels off but I forget to do stuff like that to make my life easier. I might just pull the wheels off again, its not that hard compared to the rear. Or just work in the cramped space.

 

[IDIBRONCO]

Yes, for sure grease them.

 

[Cubey]

Yes, for sure grease them.

Does the grease go all the way through if pushed in from one end? As in, could I remove the bottom grease fitting and fill it from the top fitting, so that it pushes out the old grease through the bottom? Or just fill it from top and bottom and hope for the best?

EDIT: Oh, I think I misunderstood how it is. You grease both and it pushes out the excess grease in the middle area?

Edit 2: ah like this. It's talking about bigger trucks but same difference

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[Isaac Ristow]

The grease does not go all the way through the king pin. Grease the crap out of the top and bottom grease fitting until fresh grease is oozing out. FYI every tapered wheel bearing I've ever done from semi trucks to 4x4 front ends to boat trailers I tighten the nut down as far as I can with a rathcet while spinning the hub back and forth then without spinning the hub back it off to lose then go as tight as you can with your bare hand on the socket or in your situation I would let the weight of the ratchet tighten it with just a tap of the finger tips extra.

 

[Cubey]

The grease does not go all the way through the king pin. Grease the crap out of the top and bottom grease fitting until fresh grease is oozing out. FYI every tapered wheel bearing I've ever done from semi trucks to 4x4 front ends to boat trailers I tighten the nut down as far as I can with a rathcet while spinning the hub back and forth then without spinning the hub back it off to lose then go as tight as you can with your bare hand on the socket or in your situation I would let the weight of the ratchet tighten it with just a tap of the finger tips extra.

Yep, I greased the king pins. I ran out of grease when I got to the upper RH but some went in and some old came out, so good enough. All still had some grease in them. I ran out because I also greased the tie rods first.

It's been over 500 miles so far and the front wheels haven't fallen off, so I guess I did it right.