Brake Troubleshooting

noahtillotson

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So I’m starting on the brake side of my project next week but I’m not really sure where to start. I’m just looking for some guidance on what I should be troubleshooting. So basically the brakes are extremely weak however they don’t sink and the vacuum is making good suction. I replaced the brake booster gasket and connector but haven’t started anything else. There is still plenty of brake fluid so I don’t think it’s leaking. Thanks to those who are willing to help. I appreciate it.
 

gandalf

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First, please fill in your signature block so we know what truck you're dealing with. It makes a difference.

Have you adjusted the rear brakes? That's the greatest and most common cause of weak brakes on our trucks. Adjust the shoes out until they rub on the drum, then bring them back in just a little. Once you've done that some one will suggest the next step.
 

gnathv

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Should be 20”. Does your pedal feel hard to push or brakes just feel weak?
 

franklin2

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Have you adjusted the rear brakes? That's the greatest and most common cause of weak brakes on our trucks. Adjust the shoes out until they rub on the drum, then bring them back in just a little. Once you've done that some one will suggest the next step.

I second the above. The auto adjusters on these trucks never seem to work.
 

TNBrett

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I will add that you need to verify that the parking brake is releasing fully. With the drums off, make sure that the shoes are resting on the anchor pin, and that the parking brake actuator (I’m referring to the roughly diamond shaped piece with the two fingers that actually contact both shores) is loose, and not putting any pressure on the shoes.

If you haven’t been inside the drums yet you may very well find that the automatic adjuster cable is unhooked. The number of them you see this way leads me to believe that it was a common practice back in the day to alleviate them becoming “over adjusted”. Because the adjuster cable is mounted to the anchor pin, if the parking brake doesn’t fully release you have essentially shortened the length of the adjuster cable. In this scenario every application of the brake can cause the adjuster to tighten up the brakes until they drag heavily. Then, when someone tries to address the dragging brakes, they find them adjusted to tightly. The automatic adjuster is then disconnected the brakes are adjusted “correctly” and the automatic adjuster is declared a “crappy design”. All the while, the parking brake, which was the real culprit, is ignored. Fast forward a bunch of years, miles, and different owners, and the brakes never got adjusted. Then here we are wondering why the brakes barely work.


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Big Bart

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Tossing in some ideas.

1) Per above perhaps pull your rear drums, inspect if good, put back on and adjust the shoes till they barely drag. Confirm when you push the brakes they are working.
2) I would pull the front tires and inspect your front brakes too. If your rotors are all pitted with rust or your pads are thin these can effect your stopping. Confirm when you push the brakes they are working.
3) Per above confirm what your vacuum pump is putting out good vacuum, don't guess. A $20 vacuum/fuel gauge at the auto parts store will be all you need to know.
4) Generally the feeling of having power brakes comes primarily from the brake booster helping you push the master cylinder. If not working or poorly working you will not feel like the truck has good brakes. If all checks out this is likely your issue.
5) If the truck has old, worn, heat damaged (Glazed), thin rotors or drums, and prior say rusty brakes the contact surface is dimished and the heat build up may be adding to the problem. The only thing to do is replace.
6) As I said above, make sure the brakes are working. I helped a friend get his mom's VW Vanagon back on the road a couple of years ago. The front brakes would not engage, only the rears. Against my logic I concluded after testing it must be the rubber hoses. Whammo, two new rubber hoses and brakes where fixed. (Prior mechanic put a master cylinder in it thinking it was that.) So if one of your brakes is not moving when pushing the pedal crack the brake line connectors starting at the master till you determine where you are loosing the brake pedal pressure.
7) Crappy/cheap pads, shoes, rotors, and drums all diminish your brake system. Only buy high end brands when you do rotors or drums and always go with high end Semi Metalic or Ceramic pads. Let them eat your rotors and drums if that is even of concern for you. I always tell people replace your rotors and drums each time. It always leads to less braking and steering wobble down the road if you do not. So if everything is working (Master Cyl, booster, vacuum pump, calipers and wheel cylinders.) I would redo your rubber brake lines, calipers, wheel cylinders, pads, rotors, shoes, and drums with good parts. (Lines, calipers, and cylinders because these trucks are getting long in the tooth.) I would bet your braking will dramtically improve!(Again if all else is working as it should.) I have seen it a half dozen times myself, going with upgraded brake parts brings 15-30% improved braking over the aging stock brakes. Even better results when replacing a cheap Midas, Goodyear, and Pepboys style advertised brake special brake job. (Cheap pads/shoes and just turned (Maybe not) the rotors and drums.)
8) Many have done a hydroboost upgrade and have been very happy.

Also keep in mind these are 80's-early 90's technology. So they are not going to stop like a modern F250. So just know these do stop well when working, but don't expect them to stop like a car or a modern day truck.

My truck was stolen last year. I replaced with a used truck and it stops but not like it should. So I will be doing a complete brake job front and back this summer to improve what was likely a brake job of cheaper chicken pads front and rear.

My local parts supplier has a product from DFC that I have used on my Cadillac and former F250. This brand is very well made, very stought, and the braking is very smooth and fast. So I plan to source those parts and put that on my new used truck. I would imagine 20-25% better braking and more predictable braking.

Hope that helps give you some ideas of what to test and how to move forward.

Let us know what you find, did, and the results!
 
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Ky85

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I'm grabbing a seat,

My 85 cant brake for $#!+ and I've done master, lines, wheel cylinders, proportion valve.

The post about the e brake does sound like it has a lot of merit

I firmly believe they wont brake like a new truck, yet there wasn't a rash of f250 crashes due to bad brakes so I know they stop like it should.
 

franklin2

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These trucks brake just as well as any new truck. What they won't do is brake for longer periods like a newer truck will. My 1989 f250 brakes just as well as my 2009 f350 work truck empty. Where my work truck jumps ahead is fully loaded and lots of downhill braking. It gives me good braking much longer than the older truck.

These trucks were not made with brakes that will scare you each time you use them. There is no "old truck" syndrome and that's just the way they are. If you use the brakes and you wonder each time if you are going to stop, then something is wrong, you just have to find it.
 

Big Bart

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I'm grabbing a seat,

My 85 cant brake for $#!+ and I've done master, lines, wheel cylinders, proportion valve.

The post about the e brake does sound like it has a lot of merit

I firmly believe they wont brake like a new truck, yet there wasn't a rash of f250 crashes due to bad brakes so I know they stop like it should.


Ky85,


Some thoughts -


My 88 F250 truck does not stop as quick as my 2006 F250 did, but the 88' it is no slacker and my 2006 F250 was 4 wheel disc. So again I would not be under false pretenses doing the below will make your truck stop better than factory when it was built. (Well maybe a little!)

Steps I would do to see if I could resolve.

1) Confirm you are getting enough vacuum at the vacuum line to your brake booster.

2) Confirm your brake booster is working not leaking. (This is much of the what we think of as my truck stops fast and has good braking.) This could likely be your issue.

3) You already replaced the master cylinder, rubber brake lines (Including the one to the rear axle.), proportioning valve, and wheel cylinders. (Generally calipers are not known for not working or not braking well, so guessing not part of the problem.) So that leaves metal brake lines (clogged or kinked.), calipers, booster, and vacuum as potential issues.

4) Adjust your e-brake.

5) Then if you still feel your truck still has slow braking. I would replace with name brands your rotors, drums, pads (Semi Metallic), and brake shoes. I find time and time that good parts simply brake faster! Often when I get a new vehicle one of the firt things I do is Michelin tires and new pads, shoes, drums, and rotors all the way around. It has always improved the ride and the braking. Also when trucks sit and rotors and drums rust, when brakes are often over heated (Becuase the truck does not stop well.), pads/shoes are worn and thin, or pads/shoes where el cheapo's all can create sub optimal stopping.

6) At 100 miles adjust your e-brake. Give it till 500 miles for everything to seat.


If your truck is not stopping like stock after addressing I would be shocked. But would still question the brake booster as part of your issue. Also if your brakes don't have a hard stop feeling or feel spongy, perhaps you have air trapped somewhere in the lines.

Let us know what you end up finding is your issue.
 
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u2slow

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Something I found very helpful with parking brake and brake adjustment....

Add a return spring to where the cables marry up on the side of frame - to help it release fully.
 

TNBrett

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Something I found very helpful with parking brake and brake adjustment....

Add a return spring to where the cables marry up on the side of frame - to help it release fully.
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X2 to this. Also there are TSB’s about rerouting the driver side cable to reduce binding. Even a little strain on the angle at which the cable enters the backing plate can cause issues.


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franklin2

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According to this the factory did use a spring there for at least some of the 80-up trucks.

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