Brake Bleeding Issues and Bleeder Suggestions

[Heide264]

Good morning,

After finally getting my hydroboost swapped in, I went to flush and bleed the brakes. It was a miserable failure. I used a motive 'power bleeder' to attempt to make my life easier. I've used it on my Subaru many times with great success. I had the pressure up pretty high on it (around 10psi) for this even though I normally keep it at 5 psi on the Subaru.

I have a 94 F350 with the IDI - 4x4 with single rear wheels. The brakes were terrifying on the drive home - Even holding the truck still at a stop was difficult and at full pedal extension. I just put a hydroboost booster on it and it appears that the system is pressure tight, however, as the brake pedal does hit a 'firm stop' albeit through a good distance of 'wet sponge' feeling. I did not use the hydroboost pedal, as I wanted to see how it lined up as is, and it appears to line up pretty well (the brake switch fit on it, as well). I don't think the pedal/booster is binding or anything along those lines. EDIT: The truck has about 100k miles on the clock, and by the overall condition of the truck, they have been well earned miles.

As a disclaimer, I have no experience with drum brakes at all.

My awesome Friday evening:
I Broke one drum bleeder off - no fluid currently bleeding out even under pressure. I got the other drum bleeder opened, but no fluid will bleed out, even with pressure on the (now not-completely-flaccid) brake pedal. Lastly, I tried one of the front calipers and got the bleeder opened, but the seal around the bleeder is shot and fluid was leaking 'around' the bleeder instead of 'through' the bleeder.

In a nutshell, it looks like this thing is getting a brake service all the way around. I can't see any easy way to extract the drum bleeder that broke off otherwise, and I'm sure whatever is in the drum is messed up anyhow judging off it's terrifying voyage home.

Any suggestions as to preferred brake bleeder brand/parts to pick up? Anything I should just order before looking at the drums? Has anybody found a good replacement for the not-so-automatic rear drum adjustors?

 

[riotwarrior]

I would strongly suggest the correct pedal as there is a reason FORD ENGINEERED it that way! KEEP the system as the system it was designed to be.

Second you didn't mention if you swapped to the Hydroboost master cylinder or kept your own?

As for brake service, it sounds like it was in need of a complete overhaul and the hyrdroboost was an attempt to fix an already pre-existing condition of poor maintenance.

Two rear Wheel cylinders would be good, but without a thorough inspection of hardware it's difficult to say what else may be needed. Best inspect and determine needs based on assessment than by guess and by golly right.

As for the front bleeder as far as I know there are no seals but the bleeder itself might be plugged with rust and debris.

You can buy new bleeder nipples to replace bad ones or remove it and take a small drill bit by hand and CLEAN it out...but just by hand, don't want to break a drill bit in the bleeder...replacement of them is likely best idea.

I'm sure if you dig around here using search you will find tons on brakes and bleeding and so on.

Good luck.

 

[Heide264]

I would strongly suggest the correct pedal as there is a reason FORD ENGINEERED it that way! KEEP the system as the system it was designed to be.

Understood. The junkyard I got it from didn't have an E40D with the hydroboost, and I haven't had a chance to call around again yet. I figure the automatic brake pedal seems to come out easily enough that I can get the system put together and in good shape with the current pedal for now. I'm a bit OCD, so I'll near certainly replace it in the near future.

Second you didn't mention if you swapped to the Hydroboost master cylinder or kept your own?

Sorry about that. I used the MC that was on the hydroboost. Came off of a super duty of the same 94+ OBS body style as my truck. I believe the old one, like most else on the truck, was struggling, at best.

As for brake service, it sounds like it was in need of a complete overhaul and the hyrdroboost was an attempt to fix an already pre-existing condition of poor maintenance.

I just figured I'd upgrade while fixing it. The MC was leaking down the booster, so I figured it would be a good time. I agree on the pre-existing issues, but I figured starting from the booster would take out one issue I already had and expose any others.

Two rear Wheel cylinders would be good, but without a thorough inspection of hardware it's difficult to say what else may be needed. Best inspect and determine needs based on assessment than by guess and by golly right.

Noted. I figured that was the case. I'll tear her down first.

As for the front bleeder as far as I know there are no seals but the bleeder itself might be plugged with rust and debris.

You can buy new bleeder nipples to replace bad ones or remove it and take a small drill bit by hand and CLEAN it out...but just by hand, don't want to break a drill bit in the bleeder...replacement of them is likely best idea.

No qualms with replacing them if I can get them out. I was just wondering if people had experience with any brands and any recommendations on what to go with. The stock ones were in bad shape, so I wouldn't mind going aftermarket if there were any good options.

I'm sure if you dig around here using search you will find tons on brakes and bleeding and so on.

Good luck.

Thanks. I'm fairly adept with general brake bleeding. The random ABS module has me questioning a few things, but otherwise I assume its like any other vehicle... Pressurize the system and vent the old fluid/air. The fact the rear bleeder wouldn't bleed at all really made me wonder though, even under a ton of pressure. Could very well just be a ton of rust.

Appreciate all the input. Thanks =)

 

[ironworker40]

Crack the lines at the rear wheel cylinders and see if you get fluid out, if you do then you will know the problem is with the wheel cylinders. If you get no fluid out of lines at the wheel cylinders check the steel line from the wheel cylinders along the axle housing. Look for crushed/dented/ smashed spots. If the truck was ever towed the j hooks towers use can crush the steel lines if the operator wasn't paying attention.
When bleeding remember right rear first then left rear then abs valve on frame rail by drivers door then right front then left front.

 

[franklin2]

I just had a rear brake line bust open because of rust. I decided to replace all the lines in the rear, and after soaking the bleeders finally got them to come loose without twisting off. I then filled the master and left the rear bleeders open. After about 5 minutes fluid started dripping out of the driver's side rear bleeder, so I shut it. About a minute or so later it started dripping out of the pass rear bleeder. Shut it and went up a tested the brake pedal, it's great. I can't believe it, this is the first time I have ever gravity bled a system and have it get all the air out.

 

[Heide264]

Crack the lines at the rear wheel cylinders and see if you get fluid out, if you do then you will know the problem is with the wheel cylinders. If you get no fluid out of lines at the wheel cylinders check the steel line from the wheel cylinders along the axle housing. Look for crushed/dented/ smashed spots. If the truck was ever towed the j hooks towers use can crush the steel lines if the operator wasn't paying attention.
When bleeding remember right rear first then left rear then abs valve on frame rail by drivers door then right front then left front.

Good input. Thanks. I'll report back if I find anything.

I just had a rear brake line bust open because of rust. I decided to replace all the lines in the rear, and after soaking the bleeders finally got them to come loose without twisting off. I then filled the master and left the rear bleeders open. After about 5 minutes fluid started dripping out of the driver's side rear bleeder, so I shut it. About a minute or so later it started dripping out of the pass rear bleeder. Shut it and went up a tested the brake pedal, it's great. I can't believe it, this is the first time I have ever gravity bled a system and have it get all the air out.

I was curious if they would gravity bleed... Then I found that mine don't even bleed with pressure on them. Gravity bleeding is great when it works.

I have a feeling I'm going to end up changing out at least some brake lines, but hopefully they aren't too bad for now. I'd rather change them out bit by bit.

 

[riotwarrior]

Good input. Thanks. I'll report back if I find anything.




I was curious if they would gravity bleed... Then I found that mine don't even bleed with pressure on them. Gravity bleeding is great when it works.

I have a feeling I'm going to end up changing out at least some brake lines, but hopefully they aren't too bad for now. I'd rather change them out bit by bit.

Toilets don't flow either if they are clogged with *****...clean the crap outta the bleeders and they would likely flow ok so you could gravity bleed.

Just sayin...

 

[Heide264]

Toilets don't flow either if they are clogged with *****...clean the crap outta the bleeders and they would likely flow ok so you could gravity bleed.

Just sayin...

I'm working on it, ha. Toilets always get clogged with ***** when it's Sunday and every plumber is ignoring his phone.

Regardless, it's nice to know they will gravity bleed - renders the fancy 'speed bleeders' somewhat useless in my opinion. My other car won't gravity bleed at all, and I flush that thing yearly.

For now, I just threw in an order for front and rear bleeders at RA. Whopping $5 shipped. It'll take me a few days to get them off and figure out what else I need, anyhow.

I'll post up results when I get stuck in the near future.

Thanks everybody.

 

[snicklas]

To be honest with you, Brakes are a SAFETY ITEM not only for you and anyone in your truck, but everyone else on the road around you. I just went through this on my VW. It started with bad pads/shoes. So I went to replace them, and the ball started rolling.......

I have replaced:

Front pads
Front caliper slide pins
Master Cylinder
Rear Shoes
Rear Drums
Rear Wheel Cylinders
Rear Hardware Kit
Rear Wheel Bearings
Brake Fluid

The car will STOP right now!!!! Yea, I spent a few hundred bucks, but I KNOW the car will stop when I shove on the "big pedal"

When it comes to safety items I DO NOT SKIMP!!!!!!!!

I just picked up a 2000 P71 Crown Vic. The drivers wiper arm was hosed.... I didn't even bother messing with it.... less than 30 bucks from Ford, and the wiper works RIGHT, it was a no-brainer. The passenger side arm is having issues, and the replacement is on the way for it.......


If it makes you SEE or STOP...... spend the money!!!!!!!!!!

Just my 3 cents........

 

[Heide264]

Just as a general note... I never wanted to give the impression I was/am cheaping out on anything, especially brakes. I've had my brakes go out before on an old caddy deville. I don't plan on that happening again.

I didn't post here to save a buck - I asked because I wanted input to help do it right the first time around.

 

[BDCarrillo]

Just make sure you get the right parts. The rear line sizes/cylinders went up in diameter ~93. Get the drum brake spring tool, and google the how-to. Did mine first time no problem. (Done disc brakes for a decade, first foray into drums)

Remove the lines from the wheel cylinders and try flushing them. Rusty scaly crap=line replacement time.

 

[riotwarrior]

As I said...inspect the rear brake system...that means removing drums, checking shoes, drums and hardware, wheel cylinders for leaking and so forth.

Based on the fact you broke a bleeder and nothing comes out of one, I'd be thinking that new wheel cylinders would be a wise investment.

Ordering a set of bleeder nipples with no idea what else is like bathing with socks and dirty underwear on...pointless. If you need new cylinders then they come with good nipples...for example.

regardless it's your 5 bucks your truck and you live far enough away from me I don't have to worry about meeting a truck with unknown brakes on the road...or at least one less anyway

Seriously inspect all parts, then order parts as needed.

JM2CW but *** do I know...not much I suspect I'm a Canucklehead redneck

 

[laserjock]

I started to ask if you were loosing fluid. Having had that rear trunk line blow, the feeling is about what you described. It might be running down the frame rail or spraying out over the fuel tank and you wouldn't realize what it is.