Barn find update, and HHO generator

[toby2tongues]

there are articles on the site that explain how pulsing the current helps regulate the input of ampheres, given as things heat up the resistance changes.

as for the price...it all depends on how much you drive. i have a disabled father in texas that i drive 2400 moles round trip to see him as much as possible. at 13/14 mpg, the trip easily costs $500 including the driving around while im there. if the claims are correct...20% increase...it pays for itself pretty quick.

could you/i build it cheaper? maybe...do i have the time to design, source parts, build, troubleshoot, redesign, re source parts, build and work a 60hr work week...nope.

this all comes down to "does it work?". im willing to take the gamble and share the info.

food for thought...20k miles per year, normally 13.5mpg, $2.50 fuel...with a 20% gain...$600 a year...get 300000 miles on these trucks....almost $10,000

i know this thing is not maintanence free, but i grew tired of reading about the science of this...some saying it works, others refuting it...i just decided screw it...ive lost more betting horses, im gunna try it.

 

[riotwarrior]

http://www.fuelsaver-mpg.com/hydrogen-assist-kits/hydrogen-assist-kit-for-medium-engines

-I can't believe they have the sheer unmitigated audacity to ask $675 for this kit.. It's like hearing, "Yes sir, please grab your ankles and hold on tight!"

My gawd boy...paid more n that for a night in...let alone one out.....and a divorce or two


Welll now its... well...****...all good now no women to pester me

 

[bbjordan]

R & D aint cheap!

this all comes down to "does it work?". im willing to take the gamble and share the info.

Thanks for sharing.

BTW, how many liters per minute is it supposed to make?

 

[riotwarrior]

I am quite interested in seejng what gains you see for cost.

Heck...other than engine oil and lubricants for trans axles etc with a WVO/WMO and or home biodiesel a d this one conceivably woukd almost have near free fuel a d good mileage...

 

[toby2tongues]

I believe it is 1.9lpm, I'll have to check.

I started fitting things up the past couple days...this going to be a bit harder than I had expected. there is just no freak'n room to put the reservoir tank and dry cell....especially given that they dry cell is gravity fed from the reservoir.

it looks like I will have to mount the tank on the evap core housing for the A/C back by the fire wall. then I am going to have to take off the front grill, fabricate a bracket to mount the dry cell in front of the A/C condenser, and then carefully cut out a section of the back of the grill, as the dry cell is thicker than the empty space between the grill and the condenser (it fits at the top, but the grill slopes back as you move down the front of the grill). I realize I can probably find an easier place to put it, but any place that I do put it would involve fabrication work, so I starting thinking...where is the BEST place to put it. given the heat generated by this can be a problem for the generation of hydrogen (the energy is being spent in the form of heat, instead of the process of splitting the molecules), so putting it up front as such will hopefully add some efficacy to the device.

will post pics of the fabrication work for reference when done.

as a preemptive note, my welds aint pretty, but by god they stick...so I will need none of your criticisms (I think I do pretty good for a guy with an English degree)

 

[gnathv]

You may be able to move the bottom of the condenser a/c coil towards the radiator to pick up the space for it.
That's what is done for intercooler installs on the obs. Not sure on 84 though.

 

[Hydro-idi]

You can remove that shroud that's in between grill and radiator. Once you remove that plastic shroud, you will have all kinds of room to work with. I mounted the reservoir tank in that space in front of ac condenser. i made a bracket for the dry cell to hang on. That was located just below the reservoir (below hood latch assembly). It was a tight fit but worked.

 

[laserjock]

1.9 lpm? The engine pulls about 300-500 CFM NA (varies with rpm of course). That's over 8490-14150 lpm. Be interesting to see if less than 0.02% actually makes a difference.

Edited to fix my stupid early morning math.
Edited again because I was actually right the first time.

 

[toby2tongues]

remember, its not about replacing the diesel, its about additional efficiency...furthermore, the lower explosive limit of diesel is .6 % by volume of air, and the lower explosive limit of Hydrogen is .016%...so at .02%, you are where you want to be, just to add a little "umph", much more than that, without retarding the amount of diesel that you are injecting into the cylinder you run into a situation where you are running too rich...we shall see. again, this is not about proving any specific stance on the issue, but rather creating empirical evidence of success or failure utilizing a specific set up.

as for angling the condenser back to make room...my only concern is that by placing the cell at an angle, you would have an air pocket at the top side corner (on the long side width) of the cell, rendering that space of the plates useless, reducing efficacy. we'll see how it goes, I'm doing my best not to get caught up in the details of this, but I want to give it the best test I can...I may not have a choice, things are pretty tight in there.

 

[riotwarrior]

.......as a preemptive note, my welds aint pretty, but by god they stick...so I will need none of your criticisms (I think I do pretty good for a guy with an English degree)

Hey....some of us here have no degrees in nothing and we catchit for welds so dont be all up in the air cause you gots a english degree ....if yer welds are good...great if not rest azsured you be called on it degree or not..

 

[toby2tongues]

i can azure ya, there is no getting uppity after spending SIX years to essencially get a degree in writing f'n book reports...but apparently it gets you a job in the oil fields of ohio...or maybe it was just because nobody else would take it

 

[toby2tongues]

I got everything mounted, and wired for the most part...but as usual, what should be the easiest thing, is a task...cant find steam distilled water, may have to order it if I cant find it today.

the biggest problem that I had...fyi...was how to tell the system that the truck was "running", as you do not want to produce hydrogen when the truck is not actually running...I was able to utilize the vacuum switch that throws the "Brake" warning light, but the problem is that it lights up when the vacuum fails (i.e. a normally open relay, and for this application, you need a normally closed relay, or one with a double throw)...the answer was to use a single pole, double throw relay, so that when the vacuum switch signals a low vacuum it energizes the coil and switches the connection...and you run the connection for the un-energized leg of the relay to the kill switch, so that when there is no voltage on the switch, the generator will turn on, and when the "Brake" light is energize, it kills the generator....and just an fyi, the main power going to the unit is of course powered by an ignition enabled circuit (the power going to the vacuum switch was utilized).

now, there is a safety feature in the controller that will turn the unit on and off based off of system voltage...>13volts when running, 12.5 or less when off (this is a user defined setpoint), but there was an input for a secondary control switch that just adds a secondary level of safety.

should have this done shortly, when I do, I'll post the pictures and the first drive results....btw, I ended up mounting the cell behind the radiator, down and to the passenger side, coming off of a fabricated bracket, under the vacuum pump, directly in front of the wires going to the starter, bolted to the frame....very tight fit, but it works....reservoir is attached to the ac core, the dryer/filter is behind the passanger side battery....tubes and wires going everywhere.

 

[Hydro-idi]

Hmm, I always used regular distilled water from grocery store. Seemed to work ok and didn't see any traces of calcium buildup in system.
Looking back at the HHO size charts, these engines require a minimum of 4LPM to work as intended. Any less than that, and you probably won't see a big difference in performance and mileage.

 

[toby2tongues]

the manufacturer calls for steam distilled water...very adimitly. so im following their instructions to a T for the sake of accuracy with this specific unit.

as for the HHO production, this manufacturer calls for about .79 lpm for a 6.9 liter engine.

this has always been my biggest problem with this topic...lots of diiferent resources, claiming to use the same science, but dramatically different "results" and standards. so, i am going back to my original stance on this experiment...im going to try to not get bogged down in the math (a aVery Easy thing to do with this topic), and just install what seems to be the best system i can find/afford, to the absolute best of my abilities and then report the data as i see it...with the hopes of making my journeys to visit my dad more affordable.

it will be very interesting to see the results.

still have yet to find steam distilled water. will try again tomorrow. if i fail to source local i will just have to order it.

 

[BioFarmer93]

I got everything mounted, and wired for the most part...but as usual, what should be the easiest thing, is a task...cant find steam distilled water, may have to order it if I cant find it today.

the biggest problem that I had...fyi...was how to tell the system that the truck was "running", as you do not want to produce hydrogen when the truck is not actually running...I was able to utilize the vacuum switch that throws the "Brake" warning light, but the problem is that it lights up when the vacuum fails (i.e. a normally open relay, and for this application, you need a normally closed relay, or one with a double throw)...the answer was to use a single pole, double throw relay, so that when the vacuum switch signals a low vacuum it energizes the coil and switches the connection...and you run the connection for the un-energized leg of the relay to the kill switch, so that when there is no voltage on the switch, the generator will turn on, and when the "Brake" light is energize, it kills the generator....and just an fyi, the main power going to the unit is of course powered by an ignition enabled circuit (the power going to the vacuum switch was utilized).

now, there is a safety feature in the controller that will turn the unit on and off based off of system voltage...>13volts when running, 12.5 or less when off (this is a user defined setpoint), but there was an input for a secondary control switch that just adds a secondary level of safety.

should have this done shortly, when I do, I'll post the pictures and the first drive results....btw, I ended up mounting the cell behind the radiator, down and to the passenger side, coming off of a fabricated bracket, under the vacuum pump, directly in front of the wires going to the starter, bolted to the frame....very tight fit, but it works....reservoir is attached to the ac core, the dryer/filter is behind the passanger side battery....tubes and wires going everywhere.

IIRC, most distilled water is steam distilled- it's actually the worst kind as the heat helps some chemicals in solution to to be carried in the vapor that is to be condensed. It's plenty good enough though.

You can tap off of the fuel shutoff solenoid wire to a relay I believe, I think it is only hot in the ignition run position, (anyone?) but there is wattage to spare for a small relay.

Behind the radiator? In front of the radiator is considered standard as it decreases the chances of thermal runaway and increases efficiency in all but the coldest weather.

Dryer and filter are higher than reservoir, right?