ATF around bell housing

[Spun4Fun]

93 with 7.3 IDI CC with 130k miles automatic ,I bought it from Original owner who had the Truck parked for 8 years before i bought it . Truck went thru the OEM Tranny already as they were using it to haul big camper .After either they replaced or rebuilt the tranny it developed a ATF leak , He parked it as he did not want to foul with it , He was pretty much tired of adding ATF and risk a 2nd tranny

I picked it up and with plenty of TLC , knuckle's busting and few selective words it's 95% road worthy . I thought i had my hand on the ATF leak when i discovered the cooler lines were shaved and had few pin holes causing them to leak ATF so i replaced them and they were good to go .

I been motoring all my fluid levels and all my work , I took the truck for longer trip yesterday , When i got back home i noticed couple drips from the bell housing ( i have the Inspection Plate off ) It's not rear main seal and not oil but it's ATF collecting around the bell housing .


I been reading posts on this Trany (E4OD) and the cause of that , Pump Seal or Bushing E4OD pump body and most likely if you replace one you replace the other . Or who ever installed the TC fudged it up


How hard is it to droop the Trany my self ( 1st time ) but i done every thing in this truck my self , I have access to lift but i have to rent the tranny jack or possibly buy it as am not sure how long it will take the Tranny shop to replace my busing and test my pump , also to inspect my TC ( the shop quoted me $150 max to go thru my pump , replace busing and hand it back to me ). I also have to buy long ext to get the bell housing bolts etc/ few more tools for the job .


Should i really do it my self and risk it buy taking a chance , I have a friend who works on diesel offers to help if he's free or should i pay my local independent PSD mechanic $450 labor to do every thing+ whatever the Pump needs.

I just do not know what to inspect to be honest . i am little intimidated .

 

[trackspeeder]

Most likely the pump seal failed from sitting for many years. Most rebuilders use the Ford gray seal. Its cheap and doesn't last very long. It should be tossed and replaced with a Viton seal.

It should only take a day for a shop to go through the pump and repair any defects.

To do this work yourself isn't hard. You have access to a lift. That's a plus. Rent a tranny jack, because this transmission is very heavy. You don't want it to land on your foot.

Check the converter hub for scores where the seal rides. This should be clean, otherwise your new seal will fail. Pull the pump seal and toss it. Check the bushing for scoring, make sure it didn't come out of place. (Most common bushing failure). If all is good, instal your new seal. Be sure to place a little ATF on the new seal.. Then put it back together.

Make sure the converter is fully seated on the tranny. Usually three clicks to drop it in place. If it is not fully seated the transmission will be damaged.

 

[e4od.com]

Hi Spun4Fun, What trackspeeder wrote is spot on and I agree with him that if you do pull your E4OD (its a heavy beast), you must have a good quality trans jack to be able to do it safely; even with 2 people under the truck.

What year was the rebuild done and do you know if it was a Ford Factory F5xx-xxxxxx trans with all the great updates that was put back in ? or is your case casting number still RF-E9xx-xxxx ? (Case Rough Forge Number is above sift lever - starts with RF-F?xx-xxxx). Then to right of that is the ford factory tag; could be metal or laminated paper tag ?

If you have the E9xx-xxxx case you could still have the updated F5 (1995) higher volume pump. If its the E9xxx-xxxx pump I would recommended finding an F5 pump and installing it for all the work that will be doing to just to stop a leak. It will not be cost effective to swap out the pump via a shop as they won't most likely warranty any labor. They will want you to do a complete overhaul.

If you do have the F5xx-xxxx case you will have the F5 pump with only 130K (on the rebuild I assume ?) and the truck sitting for 8 years 95% chance its just the pump seal and not the bushing that is source of leak but, if you do pull the trans and pop the seal you will be able to see if the bushing has moved or spun.

I have a test for you can do to help determine if the bushing has moved. (not full proof) If you let the drips stop and then drive the truck then park it just before it getting to normal temp, will it still have a few drips afterwards ? Or, does it only drip after you driven the truck on a longer trip that you notice ATF leaking ?

When a bushing moves and/or spins it partially blocks a drain hole in the pump cover which causes ATF to build up to the seal level (floods the seal) resulting in a leak pass the seal "sealing area" on the convertor hub.

On the other end of this test is if the leak is always dripping ? with more ATF leaking the more you drive it ? or leaks more the hotter it gets ? which most often points to a bad seal especially in this case since the truck sat for 8 years.

Check out this picture to see what it will look like if the bushing has moved. It will not be flush with the face. See where the stakes in the bushing are not in the cutouts ? How the bushing is raised up away from the flat face where the seal sits ?

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Concerning if you should or should not pull your E4OD and make the repair(s) ? Its a $8 seal and everyone who has every pulled their E4OD to replace this seal or even rebuilt their own trans was once a 1st timer. Like trackspeeder said above, "its not hard" but, it does take time and proper procedures (like any repair) must be followed. With that said, if you can do a head job on an engine, you can do these repairs as there is loads of posts & youtube videos to guide you; you have people on oilburners.net to answer your questions; and if you check out my E4OD Free Tips eBook it might help you decide if you want to tackle this repair yourself.

http://www.e4od.com/ebook/

Now, the tough part for me, I hate to see anyone spend $600 just to have a pump seal replaced. It will happen if your trans is a F5 Ford factory rebuild and the bushing looks good when the shop pulls it (that bushing generally does not spin in the F5 pump and it was staked properly by the factory). Most shops won't even pull the trans out from under the truck and will likely just put in a new seal and reinstall the trans. I have seen it done many times. But, you would have the toughest part of pulling the trans out from under truck and I don't recommend borrowing someone's lift for your first pull that may require you to also pull the pump as its not going to be a 3 hour job. It would be easier to use a lift but, without knowing how far you ultimately have to get in to your transmission ? If you do have plenty of time and can get help when you need it from you diesel mechanic friend you can save a bunch of money and once you have done this repair you will be set for overhauling your E4OD should you ever need or want to in the future.

If you split the pump, you have to use a large hose clamp to align halves before you torque it together or it wont slide back in to the case.


Removing transmission from F250:

http://e4od.com/ebook/trans_removal.htm

Removing Input Shaft:

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Pulling pump with home made slide hammers:

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After Pump is pulled there is a plastic thrust washer & flat bearing:

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Back of Pump:

Outer Pump Seal is visible here too.

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Pump stator that has teflon rings fits in to center of Coast Clutch Drum picture here:

You will see the bearing in the center that is same bearing for pump stator to run on.

Also notice black gasket. THis is the pump to case gasket that must be replaced.

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Please feel free to pick my brain on this before and during this job. I will be available daily for the next 2 months but, will be traveling after that and only checking my email / posts once a week.

________________________

More Leak Diagnostic info: Courtesy of 1996 Bronco with E4OD Automatic Transmission Workshop Manual

Fluid Leakage in Torque Converter Area
In diagnosing and correcting fluid leaks in the torque converter (7902) area, use the following procedures to locate the exact cause of the leakage. Leakage at the front of the transmission as evidenced by fluid around the converter housing, may have several sources. By careful observation it is possible, in many instances, to pinpoint the source of the leak before removing the transmission from the vehicle. The paths that the fluid can take to reach the bottom of the converter housing are as shown in the following illustration. The following five steps correspond with the numbers in the illustration.

Fluid leaking by the torque converter impeller hub seal lip will tend to move along the converter impeller hub and onto the back of the impeller housing. Except in the case of a total seal failure, fluid leakage by the lip of the seal will be deposited on the inside of the converter housing only, near the outside diameter of the converter housing.

Fluid leakage by the outside diameter of the converter hub seal and the case will follow the same path which the leaks by the inside diameter of the seal follow.

Fluid leakage from the torque converter to the flywheel stud weld, drain plug, or seal weld will appear at the outer diameter of the torque converter on the back face of the flywheel (6375), and in the converter housing only near theflywheel. If a converter leak is suspected, remove torque converter and pressure check. Refer to Torque Converter Checks under Disassembly/Reassembly of Subassemblies in the Disassembly portion of this section.

Fluid leakage from the pump will flow down the back of the converter housing. Leakage may be from loose or missing pump bolts, torn or damaged pump-to-case gasket and/or a worn pump bushing.

 

[Spun4Fun]

Thank you so much for all this great information, help and pointing out the course of action i should take . In matter fact if any thing i learned and discovered that there is always a great help here .

e4od.com >That is a wealth of information and great step by step on how to take the giant down . However i am not sure what's all the obstacles and surprises on my way to put this giant back in his place after all done . I know for fact IF i have plenty of time and access to more needed tools for the job/ help i will do it but from what i been looking into i don't have access to heavy duty jack or proper assistance as my friend super busy with his job and other commitment .

I have took the risk before on so many other projects and the reward was amazing and self satisfactory along with the big saving . However i always looked at some specific projects that i took the risk head on and tackled to discover that i should of left it to some one else to do it specially if they do it every day for living and what i saved was so close to what they charged but the time , research , effort and pain i put into it was so much of PITA to equal the reward i gained vs them doing it.

I guess i choose to pick my fight's .. .

I have to confirm my Transmission if it's the F5xx-xxxxxx or the E9xx-xxxx . I will check close to lunch time . I figured let the shop go at it . I will request from them to let me know what stamped on the pump if it's the E9 i will upgrade it to rebuilt F5 which comes equal to what the Tranny shop quoted me to test and service my existing one assuming it's the E9


Here is what i found and let me know what you think

http://www.ebay.com/itm/251392814212?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2648&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT


I did not drive the truck longer than 12-15 miles the other time was this past Sunday for 20 minutes as i was solving the Oil leak issue( Replaced Turbo return oil line gasket, Valley pan gourmet, Valve cover gasket ) which turns out to be the Valve cover gasket that was causing my oil leak.

All my short drives where to discover the oil leak and did not turn out any Tranny fluid that i noticed until this past Friday and Sunday ,The ATF seems visual and come out more when the Eng reached good Operating temp vs short trips when it's cold or rather if it's setting idling like a duck no sign of ATF . This Eng likes to take it's time to warm up .

 

[Spun4Fun]

Transmission is code RF- F5xx-xxxxxx

 

[trackspeeder]

If the leak is only when hot, its just a bad seal. You don't have to remove the pump to change it.

To give you an idea on pump pricing Ford is over $300. bucks for a rebuilt F5 pump. So the ebay pump is a good price with a warranty.