6.9 injection pump install - no start

[Rover1man]

Hello,
I have a 1985 Ford F250 - 6.9 diesel - 130k miles. Installed new pump form Diesel Care. Wont start.
Also installed at same time:
all new glow plugs,
all new injectors,
all new fuel lines.
New Thermoking Lift pump,
new fuel filter
1 yr old batteries fully charged - cranks great - on charger.
12 volts present at shut of solenoid and cold start valve

2 Questions :

1. When I took out the old pump, I did not remove the housing. But i had to wrestle the pump a but to come out of the timing gear. I read somewhere else that there is not enough clearance in the housing to allow the gear to slip a tooth. Can anyone confirm? COULD I HAVE GOTTEN THE GEAR OFF A TOOTH?

2. Pump has been difficult to prime, very little output from the top of the return line, but some - maybe 1 ounce after a 20 second spin of the starter. I followed the Diesel Care tips and hooked up an aux tank and same thing. There is some fuel present when i crack the injectors. I also took all of the lines off the injectors and cranked the starter, but just a drip comes out each line. IS THAT NORMAL WHEN THE LINES ARE ALL OPEN?

Truck will nearly catch will a squirt of staring fluid - i know not to cycle glow plugs when using starting fluid.

Any other tips or advice would save me from gouging out my eye with a spoon.

thanks

 

[quickster]

Pull the fuel filter off and make sure its full. Make sure the electrical connections to the pump are good, like the fuel shutoff. You can also try putting a clear hose between the lift pump and filter head and see what kind of flow you have. Not getting fuel, so check from the ip back to the lift pump. And I don't think the pump would jump a tooth if you left the cover on.

 

[CharlesG]

Installed new pump form Diesel Care.

This could be part of your problem. In the IDI tech article section is a thread called the 'Hall of Shame'. A quick search of that thread has a few posts about Diesel Care.

When you installed the lift pump, did you make sure to get the arm of the pump under the lobe on the cam?

 

[Rover1man]

Thanks so much for the responses - much appreciated. Lift pump is electric and good supply is confirmed. I did set the motor to top on cylinder 1 - crankshaft marks in place and the centerline from the y was marked and line up with "centerline" and the post is at 4 o clock, so gear looks right.

Does anybody know of the pump should just dribble when lines opened or should it be a burst while cranking ?

I will look up the Diesel Care thread - They were three weeks late in sending the pump so we are not off to a good start with them.

 

[IDIBRONCO]

I read somewhere else that there is not enough clearance in the housing to allow the gear to slip a tooth. Can anyone confirm? COULD I HAVE GOTTEN THE GEAR OFF A TOOTH?I can confirm this. If you have the engine on a stand with the gear housing in place, you can rotate the engine completely upside down and it still will not affect the IP gear timing. If you left the housing in place, there is no way that you changed the gear timing.

This could be part of your problem.That was my first thought after reading your second line in the first post.

I did set the motor to top on cylinder 1 - crankshaft marks in place and the centerline from the y was marked and line up with "centerline" and the post is at 4 o clock, so gear looks right.I know that this is the "standard procedure" for installing an IP, but since there is an alignment dowel in the IP gear and it goes through a slot in the IP, you don't have to put the engine at TDC on #1 cylinder. The IP can only go one one way.

Does anybody know of the pump should just dribble when lines opened or should it be a burst while cranking ?There is never a large volume of fuel that comes out of an IP when cranking the engine over with a line removed (I can't speak about the top return line since I've never tried that myself). There is a lot of pressure behind the small volume of fuel. If, by "trickle", you meant that there's not much pressure behind the small volume of fuel coming out of your IP, then there is something wrong. It may be that there's some air in your fuel system. Then again maybe not in this case.

Just so you know, the IP and injectors wear as a complete set and should be replaced as such unless you have a very good reason for only replacing one part of the total system. You won't gain as much performance/mileage by just replacing one part as you do when you replace everything. Cheap? Nope, but it's the best way. One more thing, the lines on the IP's are only good enough to get the engine running after replacing the IP. They don't mean anything beyond that.

 

[Rover1man]

Hey Charles G,

Thanks for the thought and tips. I do appreciate the comment about replacing all the components - that is why I did the pump, lines, injectors, filter, lift pump, etc. Now I am worried that one or more the new components are no good. I should have done them one at a time, test run, then do another. I hate to think my new rebuilt pump is trash, but I am wondering.

I will do a compression test next to see if its worth continuing. I am having thoughts of selling off the parts an get a gasser - this thing has always required a constant feeding of components and it never stops - batteries, starter, all new cables. alternator, regulator, and AC in the last round. One of my on going concerns is that the after market parts are so poor, that i have done more than one of almost everything.

Stay tuned for either a breakthrough or a yard sale!! HA!

 

[TNBrett]

It sounds to me like the IP is not getting fuel, or it’s not letting any through. You should be getting more fuel out of the lines than what you are describing.
Have you checked to see if you can hear the fuel shut off solenoid clicking? With the key on, disconnect and reconnect the FSS and listen and feel if it’s working. I believe I t’s also possible for it to be assembled incorrectly when putting the cover onto the housing, but pulling the cover to check would probably void whatever warranty the builder may have.
I assume you have let the electric lift pump run to prime the system. Have you gotten fuel flowing out of the schrader valve when you press on the core? Do you have a steady flow of fuel coming into the injection pump? Are you getting a steady flow of fuel out of the return fitting from the injection pump? I apologize if some of the questions seem overly basic, I’m just trying to work through troubleshooting it. I know a lot of folks don’t like certain fuel system suppliers, but telling you that doesn’t get your truck started. Even a crappy pump builder is going to do some testing of the unit before they send it out the door. You should be able to get your truck started. FWIW my truck is running a Diesel Care IP and injectors from Pensacola Diesel. Those are probably the worst two outfits out there in most peoples opinion. I didn’t buy any of those parts, they were brand new on the truck when I bought it, but the truck runs good, and I have other things to spend time and money on right now. When the time comes, I will definitely be buying a pump and injectors from one of the “good” guys.

One other thing, are your lines completely off? As in, can you see daylight between the end of the lines and the injectors? Don’t do that. Try with all the nuts only about half a turn loose. Have someone else cranking, and as fuel begins to squirt out around each injector nut tighten it up.

 

[chillman88]

Here's my thoughts for what it's worth. You're getting SOME fuel through the IP. Therefore I would suspect the problem lies elsewhere. I wouldn't doubt a poor reman to not run or run poorly, but I don't think you'd get as far as you are.

My number 1 question right this moment would be the lift pump. They've been hit or miss lately. You need to check flow and volume at the Schrader valve. I realize you said you confirmed a good supply but what pressure and flow are you getting?

Spec is 5-7psi and I don't remember flow requirements. It was something like should get a pint in 15 seconds or something like that. I'd have to look it up.

That being said. These things can be downright ORNERY when dry. My parts truck had been sitting and took a few hours of messing around before she finally fired off.

Also. Make sure all your cranking is done at full throttle. It definitely makes a difference in priming the system.

The way I've done it is 4 lines cracked, 4 closed. Crank until there's SOME fuel dribble and switch. Then after that hit the glow plugs and spin it for 10-15 seconds at full throttle before giving it a cool down.

Make sure your batteries are full. Slow cranking is peein' in the wind.

 

[quickster]

Check the output of the pump. Put some juice to it with the line going to the filter disconnected. Make sure the fsv is working and the tank has fuel. It sounds stupid but it's easy to overlook .

 

[Rover1man]

Thanks to all for the responses. I do have plenty of fuel coming out of the schrader valve at the filter housing, and to the fuel supply at pump. The lift pump is an electric thermo king type. I will see how much it cycle today when I am also going to check the compression.

I read in a pump tuning thread about removing the check valve fitting on the top of the pump and just use a straight through hose barb to increase fuel return for better efficiency and also for improved cooling for later when it runs.! Has anybody done this? Would I have a better chance at getting the pump primed with less back pressure from the return line?