1998 E4OD on the outside... ...wait a minute!

[SDEconVan]

To add to what TrackSpeeder said, the instruction sheets that come with upgraded friction pack kits are good for getting tight tolerances and looking out for trouble spots. Likewise the TransGo shift kit has good info, or at least to me it seemed well-suited for the hobbyist like myself.

Forward Clutch Assembly

This one is just like the others maybe a little more simple. Just disassemble, put new seals in and assemble with new frictions and steels:
After removing the snap ring, pull out the friction pack, then remove the piston using compressed air:

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In this one the Cylinder (outer steel case,) has the inner and the piston has the outer seals

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Once I cleaned and inspected grooves and slots, it was re-assemble time:

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ATF on the seal, a little (tacky) blue assembly grease on the bearing surface

Piston back in and return spring on top (spring rests on a circular apply ring (more grease on contacts))

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It might be a good idea to line up the fluid passage hole in the piston with a gap in the piston return spring for
compressed air access.

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New friction pack has 6 rather than 4 frictions.

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Alto also supplies steels, including two modified pressure plates, (both thinner than OEM)

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Note the Pressure Plate (in foreground) has a dished shape to it. This dish goes toward the piston return spring.

Again, I am very impressed by the tolerances held with these aftermarket parts, with the original snap ring in place
the clearance (from Alto) is 0.040-0.075 (Factory is a surprising 0.030-0.055, which is tighter than what Alto calls for.)

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I came in at 0.030, which is 0.010 tighter than Alto's spec. I should say that this gap was a little harder to measure because
of the Cushion Spring (Wavy-washer style steel) which may/may not have smashed a little bit.

I want to think about whether or not I need to get a snap ring 0.010 thinner than what I have in there...

(edit: after some thought, I went back and juggled some of the steels (new ones and originals) and came up with 0.058,
which is a little sloppy compared to the rest. Might be time to buy a special size snap ring?)

Oh yeah, I am also debating the use of the Alto Teflon Seal Rings, or the Steel Seal Rings that came with the transmission?

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Any positive comments/advice would be appreciated!

(Continued)

 

[SDEconVan]

(Cont.)

Intermediate Brake Drum or Direct Clutch, (and Piston Seal)

This was like the Forward Clutch (in fact, ALL these assemblies look alike! That is probably the MAIN REASON more people don't try to do this kind of stuff!

edit: The Intermediate Brake Drum and Direct Clutch are ONE IN THE SAME, so some of this one post is a repeat! I have added notes in italics

The biggest difference is that the Intermediate has directional clutch races and special thrust bearings rather than needle thrust bearings.

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Torn down, piston ready to remove

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Another funny thing I noticed is that there are so many seals and o-rings, that when they are in the bag they all look the same. But when you get down to it, and compare to the original that came out of the assembly or measure the diameter of the place the seal is going in, there is only one unique seal that will fit. Kinda like a jig-saw puzzle (I guess you could HAMMER a piece of "blue sky" jig-saw puzzle into the "wrong hole" )

What I see as the main problem for screwing the pooch would be to put in a seal upside down, like with the groove (if any) facing up instead of down. Seems like the manuals and info sources are pretty clear on this stuff though...

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New Grooved Seals with ATF

Piston back in place:

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OTC tool used again:

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Then after a snap ring goes in place, the Friction Pack gets re-installed. YES, that's right, the same original (mine was new) Friction Pack goes back in:

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In the Alto packaging, the Intermediate Drum was NOT listed. (Maybe it is not as critical as the others? I don't know when it comes to E4OD's...)
edit: ^^^ THIS IS INCORRECT, Alto lists the Int Drum as the Direct Clutch and they DO list the spec as I covered elsewhere

After the last Snap Ring goes in, the clearance is measured. Spec from factory is 0.045-0.060
edit: NO, ignore this effort, old drum was used
I came up with 0.058, which is a little on the loose end of the range, especially when compared to all the other gaps I came across...
edit: These numbers are wrong, ignore

So that covers the Intermediate Drum

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Up to this point I have the Pump, Shift Kit, Overdrive, Coast, Forward, and Direct/Intermediate assemblies done, so I am more than half way now...

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I have to move fast now, looks like my van is getting transported to my shop any day now...!

Best regards,
George

 

[trackspeeder]

You can get snap rings from Ford or a local tranny shop. I usually hit my local shop. A donation to the coffee fund is my price.

As for your seal rings, You can go with either one. If the cast rings are not damaged they are fine for reuse.

Intermediate brake drum spec with Alto .045. Try not to exceed .050. Remember with Alto tighter is better.


You're getting close to the end. Before you drop all your parts into the case, give it a good inspection.
Check all the lugs for burrs, they can be removed with sand paper. Check the output shaft bushing for wear. If its worn or damaged replace it.

Give the case a good bath and let it dry.

 

[SDEconVan]

Still waiting on my van, but no rush as I sort this tranny out.

Well I'll have to say that I'm not too happy about the sloppy spec on the Intermediate Brake Drum.
In fact I'm not satisfied with the lack of aftermarket frictions and steels for this part of thetransmission.
I still have not gotten a good answer regarding this...

They make Intermediate Pack kits for the E4OD successor, the 4R100, but they are not interchangeable.

...I DID however finally find a (sort of) close source for the clips and rings, about 40 miles away. The
guy Mike was very helpful about trying to get a tighter tolerance on the Intermediate (stock spec 0.045-0.060)
and did admit that he sees many of these Intermediate Drums pretty sloppy. Mine is at 0.064" Surprisingly in
my local area, the shops I've tried have not been very helpful (Production Shops and High-End.)

Mike had suggestions ranging from using off-the-shelf frictions and steels, special retaining rings, and even machining
a thicker pressure plate down to fit. I plan to pursue this and will update if I get a good solution to tighten this
spec up.

Center Support Gasket Upgrade and Bearing Upgrade

The ATSG manual does not address upgrades nor does the MotorCraft site spell things out. Sometimes the aftermarket
parts come with useful information, like this:

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This gasket upgrade was part of the overall kit I got, but is available as a separate item, at the same time it is useful
to swap out the Center Support Bearing (labeled as "Hub" which is one of two parts I purchased for the Center Bearing
upgrade.) Again, the bearing was a separate purchase. The other piece goes into the OD Planet.

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The upgrade gasket, plus some blue assembly grease, AND the Support Bearing (left) ready to go back together.

Line it all up, and a soft mallet gets you there,

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Torque fasteners TWICE

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Thread lock was specified...

Center Support done, then the compliment, Center Shaft (right) goes into the OverDrive Ring Gear,

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Check for interaction and fit,

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Looking at some upcoming tasks, I'm gonna have to build a holder for the Intermediate/Forward/Input Shell assembly:

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(l-r, this is the Input Shell, with Forward Clutch, then Intermediate Brake Drum mocked up. This is how I want to put it into
the Trans Case, as one assembly, so I will need to fab up a holder to drop it into the narrow fitting case.)

Continued...

 

[SDEconVan]

(Cont.)

Reverse Carrier and Clutch

This part is pretty simple, replace some seals, then check for fit of parts to get ready to install into the case.

The Planet that was in the transmission was a 3-pinion with aluminum case:

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The 3 got replaced with a 6-pinion, steel case:

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Planetary set into the Clutch Hub:

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On the other side is the Reverse Clutch Piston, which has 2 seals:

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*I will get some pics of the seals getting installed.

Next I am contemplating replacing the seals in the Intermediate/Overdrive Cylinder but it has new seals already, might need to
fabricate a tool to do it...

Best regards,
George

 

[trackspeeder]

I would machine a thicker pressure plate to tighten the intermediate drum.

 

[SDEconVan]

TrackSpeeder- You are right on point with milling the Pressure Plate, read below...


First I got to mention that I had a total confusion over names of assemblies. For some reason I thought the
Intermediate Brake Drum and the Direct Clutch were two different things- They are ONE IN THE SAME...
I made some edits to this thread in particular Post #47

Well, I had quite an interesting day, a couple hour window opened up for me so I drove up to the source of clips
and snap rings, 40 miles away. Turns out this guy Mike is not like any of the other guys, he was totally into the
build instead of seeing me as a threat, and he was super-helpful with explaining and suggesting things to do while
staying withing the budget and concept of updating the E4OD for diesel without going too extreme. His business
is focused on helping amateur hobbyists like me, so glad I found his place...

I took my Direct, Intermediate, Forward, Shell, and Input shaft in a box for him to see, just because I wasn't sure of how I had
it set up (my gut was telling me it wasn't quite right...)

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(this is the Shell with the Direct and Forward clutch assemblies in it)

First thing, he noticed the slop (0.064") in the Direct/Intermediate stack. He also clarified to me that the Direct and
Intermediate are the SAME thing He also pointed out that the Shell was NOT matched to the diesel 5 Clutch
Direct Drum that I bought as part of the update effort.

Although everything went together he said I would soon find out after running it, that the tranny would let go...

...the Sun Shell is obsolete and not matched to the Direct Drum (a diesel 5 clutch OEM, which got upgraded to 8 using Alto Power Pack kit)

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The correct Sun Shell to use is hardened and made for the diesel... (Yes, the tranny WAS for diesel but the previous rebuilder stuffed it
with car parts) Mike said he sees that a LOT, guys pay 2 to 3 thousand and get JUNK. There's no way for the average
guy to know, until it's too late and out of warranty... I replaced the hard parts with diesel and he said the things I did were a
good move and just a couple other tweaks and it should be working right.

The correct Sun Shell

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He sold me a hardened Sun Shell that worked with the diesel Direct Drum I already bought. The eight lugs on the diesel drum are almost
twice as thick as the drum I replaced.

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Ford changed to the hardened drum post-2000, and the lugs of the diesel Direct Drum ride on the tabs (pencil):

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(also, the diesel drum has the groove for the snap ring higher in the drum = more frictions)

The diesel Direct Drum has thicker lugs:

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And now, the thicker lugs ride on the tabs in the new Sun Shell:

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(that was a good 30 bucks I spent, cheap SOB that I am...)

An off shoot of this "lugs on tabs" is that Ford got their stronger Sun Shell, AND they saved money because they did not
need to use a Thrust Washer between the Direct and Forward assemblies. Engineers and bean counters LOVE to save a
few bucks per unit (vehicle) when they put out 100,000/year.

This is the non-diesel Direct Drum (see 4 notches for the Thrust Washer)

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This is the diesel Direct Drum (no notches, no Thrust Washer)

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Here is some description I found of the action taken for the 2nd Design:
http://somacar.blog.fc2blog.us/blog-entry-20.html

(Continued...)

 

[SDEconVan]

2nd Design (Cont.)
Just to clarify what I was trying to say:

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Slop in the Direct Clutch/Intermediate Brake Drum Stack

The other thing Mike helped with was the 0.064" clearance I had in the stack (regardless of how I arranged it I couldn't get any less.)

I had an Alto machined Pressure Plate but could not use it, until Mike sold me a couple of Selective Snap Rings (I had 0.076, 0.085, 0.094 now!)

I did a bunch of different combos and came up with this:

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Clipped in with a 0.085" ring, I got 0.022" (Alto calls for 0.020-0.025, Factory 0.045-0.060)

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By the way, I should mention that the Thrust Washer on the OTHER side of the Direct Clutch (Intermediate Brake Drum) is still the same:

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Now I am getting closer to final assembly, with just a few more details to address. I plan to cover the Intermediate/Overdrive Cylinder although
I do not think I need to crack it open and replace the seals...

...just mocking up some of the parts so far,

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(Intermediate/Overdrive Cylinder is on the right, like a piston or throw-out bearing of sorts)

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More to come.

Best regards,
George

 

[trackspeeder]

Hardened sun shells are cheap.

Sounds like you found a good shop.

 

[SDEconVan]

Hi TrackSpeeder,
Yeah, I finally got a shop that was willing to talk about my hobby/project transmission. He's not really a shop, though
he's been building transmissions for 37 years, he now Sells Parts only, both to businesses and private sales. He quickly
clued-in on what I was trying to do: bring a diesel transmission to updated specs and do those things that are affordable
to increase strength and performance. To my surprise he also said a lot of shops (in our area) cut corners on rebuilds,
it's one way to stay competitive on price. Sad but true...


I had a lot on my plate today so only had enough time to putter with making that Shell Holder:

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Couldn't just bend the steel it was high hardness, so I did relief cuts, bent it, then fillet welded to stiffen the joints.

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*I should note that the Direct/Int is stacked on top of the Forward Clutch with
NO thrust washer between them. If you look closely, just below the lug that
is resting on the tab of the Sun Shell, you can see the all-important air gap
between the Direct's lug and Forward's drum, which is a relief

Anyways, the 3/16" x 3/4" steel strap fit into the Sun Shell slots perfectly, I then fill-welded a little dot of metal to act
as the hook piece. Hardest part was drilling the two holes for the bolt

The little piece is 1/4" taller than the big piece so they clamp the assembly together nice and stable when the clamp
bolt is even just tightened a little bit.

I did not have the time this evening to r&r the seals on the Reverse Piston, but I started to rummage through the last
of the Frictions and Steels to try and figure out what goes where.

Funny, the kit I got had instruction sheets for the three main assemblies (Overdrive/Forward/Direct/) plus a short blurb
on the Coast Clutch, BUT nothing on the Reverse itself.

One thing mentioned was that by keeping the clearances tight on the 3 assemblies, the shift response of reverse will
improve quite a bit.

All that said, I had Alto Frictions and Steels in the kit:
(Grey stack to the left)

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They have "Alto" marked on them but they are not Red Eagles... ...still I will assume they are as good or perhaps better
than the Raybestos that were already in there (Raybestos' were new too, just been sitting in the tranny for almost two years.
The steels were not Kolene treated, just typical looking steels. Wonder if the Raybestos are any better, then again the reverse
low is not a high wear/high failure pack.

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That's a wavy washer/plate on top of the stack, can't recall what part it is, but seems like everything looks the same but only
goes in one way. Kinda toasted looking

I'm beating around the bush too much, I need to start putting stuff back into the case. The billet input shaft I ordered should
be in soon and my Van is getting dropped off any day now, so I best keep going, though as cautious as I am. (Seen guys
literally put a tranny together in minutes, but I'm trying to learn and hoping not to make too many errors...!)

Best regards,
George

 

[trackspeeder]

You have standard Alto frictions and steels. Raybestos is better.

You wont find anything on reverse. This is another no spec area. You have options.

1. Add another friction and steel. This will require machining of the pressure plate to obtain .020 - .040 clearance.

2 You can buy thicker steels to take up clearance.

I do option 1. What you will find is a clearance of .050+ in this area. This is what causes delayed reverse. Tighten this pack up. Do the TransGo stuff. You will have reverse immediately.

That wavy washer is a cushion spring. It goes on top of the first pressure plate. Just above the piston.

Take your time, you don't want errors. As you know this is a heavy transmission. You only want to pull it once.

Looking good so far.

 

[SDEconVan]

Thanks again Good to know about the Alto Regulars vs Raybestos. Now I got to round up another friction and get the Pressure Plate milled, OR

I got some thickness numbers and Alto sent me two different thickness Steels and an extra number of Reverse Frictions as well.

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Altos left, Raybestos right.

Altos Frictions___0.077 (6)
Altos Steels1____0.068 (4)
Altos Steels2____0.077 (3)
Rayb Frictions___0.079 (5)
Rayb Steels_____0.069 (5)

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The Pressure Plate is plenty beefy at 0.550

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I was surprised the Alto kit did not supply a Pressure Plate

The steels are interchangeable between the two brands so I can change the stack height around a bit. I have to decide if there is an
advantage in somehow using the 6 Altos frictions I have, or getting another Raybestos and using 6 of those frictions. With that said,
the strategy here is probably to put the old original stack in, get a clearance number, find a target clearance spec (probably 0.020-025,)
then calculate the amount the Pressure Plate needs to get milled, then go from there.

Odds n' Ends

Rusted Pieces
I never mentioned, one reason I got a deal on this transmission was that it got stored outside for 2 years (granted it is in Southern California, but
precipitation manages to find a way...)

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The trans had no transfer case and no adapter.

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These were good candidates for naval jelly. I thought about using the sandblaster but it was a little easier than that. The thought of hydrogen
embrittlement crossed my mind but the reaction is a reduction rather than electrolytic so it should not harm the output shaft.

Reverse Piston Seals

Finally got to this. One of the easier seals to do, although I had to check for the right type of seal slots in the piston:

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(important enough for the kit maker to add this extra in their kit)

Outer groove:

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No steps

Inner groove:

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Likewise no steps...

...so the standard seals can go in rather than the specially packaged ones.

(Continued...)

 

[SDEconVan]

Reverse Piston Seals (cont.)

The regular seals are real simple, no undercuts or grooves in them like the majority of seals in the E4OD

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Lots of ATF like everything else going into this transmission.

Intermediate/Overdrive Cylinder Seals

This is an odd part. Basically it is two pistons in one. Pushing one way works the Overdrive system and the other side of
the Cylinder pushes the Intermediate/Direct system.

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Intermediate Piston is the dark piece, the shiny band in the middle is the Cylinder, and the dull silver piece on the right is the Overdrive Piston.

Removing the Intermediate Piston is straightforward, just pull it out whilst twisting on it

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Removing the Overdrive Piston is a little more interesting, a snap ring can be pried off using a screw driver (ring will be under a little pressure
by the Belleville Spring underneath,) but nothing will fly out at you.

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Get the ring and spring out, and grab the piston

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There was an ever so slight difference in the seals from the kit, they had a little more material at the outermost edge,

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The seals get put in with the grooves facing downward to the cylinder

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Likewise the seals for the other piston have grooves that face to the cylinder.

Then it all goes back together (lots of ATF) and the spring, and the ring go back on.

I found the ring (or clip) went on easiest by placing it entirely around, but above, the groove it is going to go into:

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Clip ring is on, but not pushed down and clicked into its slot yet (I found this was easier than trying to bend the clip at one end
down into the slot and trying to work it around- too much chance at a screw up )

It is just a matter of pushing down on the Ring, overcoming the resistance of the Spring and sliding the Ring into the waiting Slot.

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Be sure the Clip/Ring is seated by going around with a screw driver and pushing on it.





Done.

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DO'OPPHH!!! NOT done.

(I think this is where that Spiral Snap Ring I bought was supposed to go!!! Not enough time tonight though...)

Before I realized my Snap Ring effort was in vain, I tried to start prepping the Transmission Case, not yet, oh well...

...til next time...

Best regards,
George

 

[Agnem]

Excellent thread and great pictures. If you would care to write it up as a how-to, I'd be happy to put it in our tech articles. You obviously know your stuff when it comes to automatic transmissions. Not to distract you from the point of this thread, but how sold are you on a Banks or ATS for your van? Working on a van is a PITA, and only a Hypermax is going to allow for decent glow plug and injector maintenance. Here is one I just installed for a customer. It's a sweet install on a van.

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[trackspeeder]

No, your not done yet. But you know that. Spiral Lock goes in now.

Pressure plates are reusable. This is why they don't come in kits. There are exceptions. If the kit is changing a clutch count they will provide you with a special plate. Other wise you reuse your existing plates.