1998 E4OD on the outside... ...wait a minute!

[trackspeeder]

Maybe Alto decided to send you a gift.

Hey, you're getting the hang of it.Breaking down a tranny less than 20 minutes is good.

Alto reds are for performance. Gray is for basic rebuilds. Neither will swell up. Reason for soaking is to keep the frictions from burning up.

 

[SDEconVan]

Again thanks TrackSpeeder, the Frictions soak up ATF and as you say they don't swell- turned out I wasn't measuring clearance properly.
Each assembly by itself I feel pretty good about, it's just the Friction Packs and EndPlays outside of, or between these assemblies that I
have to learn more respect for.

I'm still scratching my head about how these EXACT parts that I had already new but in Grey, instead of Red, show up at my door. What's
even weirder is how did they get my address???

*********************************

I decided to take time to measure things. Besides I am still waiting on some shims that I might use. (I should mention that I ordered another Selective
Snap Ring in anticipation of finishing the Overdrive Clutch Pack, but that's on hold until I can get the Reverse and Intermediate (outer) stack clearances
where they should be. Again, I ordered the part before lunch yesterday and the Snap Ring showed up when I got home from work today)

Oh, I found an Inspection Cover (new/OEM) for thirty-five bucks. I been through the local yards and never found anything close, though I was hoping
to get a "fabled cast aluminum cover." Still, cheap as I am, I figure 35 smackers is good insurance to protect hundreds of dollars worth of Torque
Converter!

You must be registered for see images attach

I still don't have my van yet (told them no rush, building tranny and transfer case,) but can someone tell me if this set up will require a Block Plate like
with some of my cars with C4's?

The Inspection Cover is very thin metal, but a lot of older vehicles use a Block Plate to get the TC clearance right and to sometimes position the starter
motor.

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(I realize the 6.9L idi and E4OD never occurred in nature, but the 7.3L idi's probably did...?)

**********************************

I REvisited the Reverse Clutch Clearances. There is no official call out for them, but Alto calls for a 0.020-0.025 clearance between the Reverse Frictions
and Steels.

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Basically, to get the most accurate clearance number off the Reverse Pack, I went in through the small passage exposing the stack, used a screwdriver
(gently) to pry a slight gap, and shoved the Feeler Gauge in.

I thought about this, "Could I be BENDING the frictions and thin steels???"

Most likely, "No" but I was extra careful, and did this measurement at least 6 or 7 times. I used Feelers well over (too thick) just to see if they would
cram in, and they don't. Eventually, I got a reading that had sliiiight drag (screwdriver out of there) when pulling the Feeler out, and no drag with the
next one (or two) down (thinner.)

I ended up at 0.023" +/- 0.002" and now I am confident that I am in range.

My advice here: TAKE YOUR TIME, you cannot be rushed with this if you've never done it. You could BLOW IT if you ignore or mis-read things.

What a shame it would be to slap together all this money and time invested only to have it burn up and claim what a P.O.S. the E4OD is (a VERY abused
transmission I am learning!) If you like to sprint and rush through things, this is NOT for you, roll the dice and pay someone else to rush it

**********************************

Now the part that bugged me so bad yesterday, the Intermediate/Forward/Shell Endplay. This is a kind of fun clearance to check for, it requires good
tools though. You've got to work out any flex or bending out of the equation! I used extra thick 3/8" steel for the Tool, and THIS TIME around I
measured DIRECTLY on the moving PISTON and NOT the edge of the tool itself... (my magnetic base to the depth gauge was connected to the 3/8"
steel bar however, because everything else in the zone is alum alloy!)

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(Gauge "zeroed" with Tool smashing down the Piston, well, not smashed, I used my Inch-Pound Torque Wrench and stopped at 65 inch-pounds.)
(NOTE also, that the Gauge is contacting the LIP of the PISTON and not the Compression Tool, more accurate.)

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(Gauge at 0.092" (reading the RED numbers, needle spun around COUNTER-clockwise almost a full revolution) spec is 0.026-0.054 per ATSG)

WOW. The clearance was WAY MORE SLOPPY than I thought (with the new Reds installed.) I came up with 0.090 to 0.095"

I will research the use of shims (Sonnax #2053) http://www.sonnax.com/parts/2053 which will allow the Int/Fwd/Shell to set FURTHER from the
Reverse Assembly, and CLOSER to the Overdrive Cylinder's Pistons (the things I'm pushing down on.) (One of the Pistons actually has four bosses that
reach right through the Center Support, contacting the Apply Plate of the Intermediate Stack. It's this Intermediate Stack that has my new Reds in it...)

One issue: I DON'T have a 4-Pronged Thrust Washer!!! So I am researching a 3-Prong option. The shims will set under the Reverse-to-Shell
3-Prong Thrust washer, relying on the 3 Prongs to secure the shim stack.

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Basically the Thrust Washer just sits further out from the Reverse Planet.

It looks like I need about 6 or 7 shims @0.010" each... ...kits come with 10 shims.

More research then I will report back to the tribe.

Best regards,
George

 

[SDEconVan]

For 2 days I wracked my brain over this, it just did NOT MAKE SENSE that there was so much freeplay on the
Endplay AND the Intermediate/Overdrive Cylinder Assembly. Both seemed sloppy, AND they VARIED!

Couple days before, I almost had things done with the Raybestos and Grey Altos, but I got these Red Eagles and Kolenes in
the mail and wanted to use them, I almost gave up thinking maybe they were a gag or somehow they were defective.


Well, tonight I sorted it out.

*****************************************

Running the assembly sequence in my mind:

There are TWO endplays getting looked at, and sequence-wise one is done "within" the other.


1. The Int/OD Cylinder freeplay/clearance can be adjusted by choosing different elements in the stack (pressure/frictions/steels/apply)
all of which is placed on top of the Input Shell/Intermediate Brake/Forward Clutch Assembly, AND/OR freeplay can be adjusted by the
snap ring (selective thicknesses.)

2. BEFORE doing #1, the Input Shell/Intermediate Brake/Forward Clutch Assembly gets dropped in, on top of the Reverse Planet. Well, SHIMS
can be used between these two assemblies. AFTER #1 happens, the final Overdrive Clutch Pack goes on to the Coast/OD Assembly, and
the last snap ring goes on. (Both the Clutch Pack and Snap Ring can be "adjusted" by selection.)

(If you can get that understood, you can build this tranny properly. Clearances are everything to durability and performance.)

Me? I have to get beat up a few times before a little bit of that sinks in...

(You also got to be willing the put together and take apart this thing multiple times, only with experience does this kind of go away, therein
lies the rub, I ain't got the experience...)

******************************************

Setting up for the first part of #2 above, it turns out you can get a good estimate of how much space you're going to have to fill. Just
finish out the assembly, #1 and #2 entirely, (don't need to even measure #1 at this point,) then carefully measure clearance (which can
be a lot, up to 0.125+) under that FINAL snap ring- That clearance is called "Endplay" for the transmission. Most of the time parts are
toleranced really well, and you can "get away" with just slapping the thing together, it could last weeks, even months!

With knowing that gap or clearance you can decide how much needs to "go away" and also decide "where" it's going away to (shims or snap ring.)

I split the amount between using some shims, and another thicker snap ring I ordered.

Shim Modification

Sonnax provides shims to go between the Reverse Carrier and the Input Shell. (This in itself is a big hint that there is a benefit from using shims.)
Both Reverse AND Input have thrust bearings that contact one-another. In fact, they WILL CONTINUE to do so, just one of the two thrust
bearings will receive shims BEHIND it.

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(I got the Sonnax shim kit (left) cheap, it was old and has some rust on a couple of the 10 shims)

BUT, the shims are for 4-prong thrust washers, the new 6-pinion Reverse Planet has 3-prongs
I hunted around and found C6 shims had 6-prongs but the notches were on the outside and I needed 3 more toward the inside, so I did what
any reasonably desperate amateur would do, I modified what I had:

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I stacked the 10 shims up, vice gripped them, and marked where I needed slots for the 3 prongs to go into. Using a diamond burr (el cheapo
HF set, 10 bits for 10 bucks,) in my Dremel took me almost an hour:

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I was surprised the fit was just snug (not that it would matter that much these are STATIC shims NOT bearing surfaces,) but you do NOT
want the shims to mess things up. The shims also should NOT be so tall that the prongs of the Bearing do not stick out very much, I'd say
1/16" stick out is about the minimum. I went with about 1/8"

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(this is with 5 shims, I'd never do that many though, I used 2. At 0.010" each that's 0.020" of the 0.055+/- I wanted to use up.)

****************************************

Meanwhile, switching over to the Int/OD Cylinder freeplay/clearance:

I covered the friction/steel stack enough times, the last one I showed in post #75 is what I stuck to:

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The Selective Snap Ring for the Intermediate/Overdrive Assembly turned out to be 0.079" in my case.

But here is the HUGE revelation.

I was not happy at all with the readings I was getting from my depth gauge. Almost wanted to give up a few times
I checked the gauge using feeler gauges under it, and it was working perfectly. I felt there was still flex in the system, in particular
the 3/8" cross bar of the tool I made was not stiff enough, the disc was dishing out as well. I got rid of relying on the MAGNETIC
base and just bolted the gauge directly to the case land:

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I also spread the load of the screw using a socket. I think this made a large difference as the end of the screw (and round plate) were
pretty boogered up:

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(Continued...)

 

[SDEconVan]

SUCCESS!

I got 0.021" of deflection going from 65 in-lbs to 0 in-lbs!

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And I got 0.021" multiple times, the fixture of the gauge made all the difference!
ASTG calls for 0.026-0.054, and Alto 0.022-0.047, but some Trans Builders I talked to say tighter is good for this one...(?/!)

********************************
so NOW, back to #2 (part 2, ha ha)

Remember earlier I came up with the amount of clearance/slop of the FINAL Endplay by mocking up the finished assembly. I had
about 0.055" I wanted to get rid of, 0.020" of which I used the shims on earlier.

The other 0.035+/- of slop I went after using a thicker snap ring (going from 0.079 to 0.121) This would put me at about 0.030,
or about mid-range for the Endplay.

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I was now able to continue,

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final Overdrive Clutch Pack is on the Coast/OD Assembly and 0.121 snap ring in place (open ends, down)

You must be registered for see images attach

and the resulting clearance is 0.020 to 0.022, ASTG is 0.022-0.047, Alto is the same.

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My feeler gauge readings varied a little probably because I did not seat/activate the clutches. I haven't figured out which ports to
energize yet.

Overall, I am very pleased with these results, the most important part is the CONSISTENT measurements. I have greater confidence
now.

Next step is to tear down, clean up, use more lube, and carefully re-assemble whilst checking all parts one last time...
...after that the Front Pump goes in then the Valves.

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Best regards,
George

 

[79jasper]

Man, that thing better last longer than the rest of the vehicle. Lol
Keep up the good work.

Sent from my SM-G900R4 using Tapatalk

 

[trackspeeder]

Looking good.

I will add some more stuff now for anybody that wants to tackle this.

This is the stuff to check after you disassemble and clean the tranny.

Inspect the case for cracks and damage. Major cracks get another case. Minor can be repaired.

Inspect all internal lugs for burrs. All lugs should be de burred. You want them smooth so the steels will not bind.

Now turn the case over. Valve body side up. With a straight edge across the pan rails. Check for warp. Do this by using a feeler gauge across the valve body surface. If you have more than .010. Use a honing stone to true it up.

Check all spools (valves) in the accumulator body for wear. If they are aluminum toss them for steel replacements. Check the bores for wear. Excessive wear will need to be reamed out.

Run a honing stone over the accumulator body. Now check the rest of the valve body for damage. Note, most people call the accumulator body a valve body. A valve body is the whole assembly. Accumulator is only a piece of the body.

Now that you have done all that. Wash everything again. Hot soapy water. (A car wash can be your friend.) A garden hose will work too. Make sure everything is clean. You don't want any dirt or metal shavings to mess up all your work.

Blow out any passages with a blow gun.

Now you're ready to attack this project.

 

[SDEconVan]

Great suggestions TrackSpeeder especially the Valve Body area for warp, didn't even think of that!

*********************************
I was just finishing up the internals, the last step was putting the Pump in...

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Used sticky assembly lube to hold the Teflon rings in place...

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I had a purple striped seal,

and a green striped seal,

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I'm not much of a purple fella, so I went with green,

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(I have NOTHING to go by on this decision, except that possibly the green is sliiightly beefier, but hard to tell)

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Got out the Billet Input Shaft (stronger, less chance at a failure, AND it is shorter than the old one, because the OVERDRIVE PLANET is shorter
on the new one, the old one was aluminum:

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The billet input shaft is an important upgrade.

Got the Input Shaft installed for aligning the Pump during its' install, I was expecting a bit of a battle to get the pump in (from what I read/heard.)
Put the Pump Gasket in place, then

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Surprised it went right in, "thump" and that was it.

That alignment tool I made for re-assembling the pump really paid off!

Torque to 23 ft-lbs:

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Sitting there admiring my work, I tried to turn the Input Shaft...

...wouldn't BUDGE! Tried to REMOVE the Input Shaft- IT WAS STUCK!!!

Something was binding.

QUICKLY tore it down, thought I may have smashed a friction in the Coast Clutch or similar...
...no evidence, in fact all parts behind the pump looked just fine.
(sorry no pics, it was a trying time...)

Some more headscratching. And I wondered where I blew it???

In trying to understand why the Input would bind like that, I removed ALL friction packs forward
of the Center Support- then reassembled. SAME BINDING

Tore it down again, then removed all non-essential parts, only those parts that rode on the thrust
washers forward of the Center Support- then reassembled. SAME BINDING

Tore it down again, removed the large plastic thrust washer behind the Center Support- then
reassembled. SAME BINDING

Then, with the minimal parts in place (no frictions/steels/plates/cyl piston) I slowly installed the
Pump to find out WHEN it started to bind.

When I seat the pump and it Thumps into place, the Input Shaft starts to get hard to turn (I expect
it to be nearly impossible to turn, but still be able to remove it!) And at the point the Pump screws
are finger tight, the Input Shaft is totally locked into place.

My limited experience makes me expect to see the Input Shaft practically fall out, and in some
cases can be turned by hand or pliers.

No way on this one!

Gonna have to do more research on this... ...kinda stuck (no pun)

Best regards,
George

 

[trackspeeder]

You should be able to remove the input shaft, and yes it can fall out if you're not careful.

Make sure the pump is seated. I thump it with a plastic hammer. Remove the input shaft. Torque to 18-23 foot lbs. Stagger the sequence so it will seat squarely. Reinstall your input shaft.

It should drop in.

 

[SDEconVan]

Oh man TrackSpeeder, you are RIGHT THERE with the suggestion (see below)...

**********************************************
I talked to the parts guy 40 miles up the coast about this binding of the Input Shaft- He sold me the billet one, so he
has some interest in what I am doing, ha. I described to him what the problem was, as I put the Front Pump on, as
the bolts got tightened the Input Shaft LOCKED, and I mean LOCKED in place, I couldn't take it out, not even
with Vice Grips and a soft hammer

I also described how I minimized the stack, only putting in the essentials, NO frictions/steels/plates, and NO Overdrive Cylinder.
Basically none of the parts not having to do with "axial" movement and the axial tolerance.

Mike suggested looking at the Center Support Bearing. He said there was a small chance that it could be mis-matched, he's seen
that happen before (the hub and overdrive shaft are made as a matched set.) In very rare cases, the mis-match can cause a
bind, but he said it was a very rare thing in 37 years of doing transmissions...

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I had two Overdrive Stub Shafts, one I bought and one that I got in the original tranny purchase (wasn't sure if I could trust it.)

The new one is on the left, I mic'd them and measured them, checked/compared their bearing land positions and they were spot
on. Still, I did see that there was a (non-critical) chamfer on both stubs (burned area, poss. heat treated) and that chamfer was
smaller on the new stub shaft. This should not matter but maybe there was some magical thing I did not see here and I swapped
out the compliment Support Hub as well (gotta get another new gasket for it now )

(In the above picture I noticed I had the Torrington still on the new stub, it was transferred over to the old stub shaft for the fit test)

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Again, another mock up to check...

...I put the Front Pump on and started tightening the bolts- and ALREADY, the Input Shaft was locked in place!!!
But, maybe I needed to SEAT the Pump down real good, forcing it to align proper- so I torqued it to spec. NOPE

****************************************************************************************************
...........................................* SPECIAL NOTE TO THOSE THINKING OF DOING THEIR OWN E4OD *...........................................
You will find a lot of posts showing teardown/rebuild/reassembly of the E4OD's. What I am trying to depict (and this is true, real
**** happening here,) is how much toil you will undoubtedly encounter. Stuff is gonna hit the fan, you will get balls-deep in this
project, have a lot of money invested, and suddenly you will be faced with what seems like an impossible problem with NO SOLUTION
and no one with a big red cape is gonna come down and save you. It's gonna SUCK some times. But guess what, IT'S A MACHINE, it
will be made right, and making it right will NOT happen unless you keep trying. I think that's called learning... ...keep going, ask, try.
****************************************************************************************************

I tried Mike's suggestion, I pinned my hopes on it- didn't work. Sitting there, I look over at the pile of discarded parts and the OLD Front
Pump jumps out at me. At the start of the build, it was an E9 (1989) so I dismissed it, now I realize it can be modified to work fairly well
though not as well as an F5 or F8. It was dirty/rusted/painted, but I wiped it off and started the mock up.

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This time IT WORKED!!! (TrackSpeeder was pretty much onto this one...)

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Still, I CANNOT TURN the Input Shaft by hand (don't really expect to) but it slides right out.

I put the original Input Shaft in (longer/used)

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And it slid out so easy that I think it would fall out if I tipped the transmission over

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(Two fingers, blur shot, no resistance)

I put a Vice-Grip on the OLD Input Shaft and could almost turn it, kinda, I could get a little click out of the guts behind the Center Support.
WITHOUT the Front Pump on, I CAN turn the Input Shaft by hand, just a note.

The new Billet Shaft is "tighter" but can still be slid out, so I am not over concerned about it so far. I just hope another Front Pump will act
like the old one.

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(Everything behind the Center Support is fully installed, as it has NO relevance to the stuff in front of the Center Support, as far as binding
the Input is concerned.) Here's a look at the stuff I had left out during this mock up (saves a ton of time, reduces the number of questionable
items.)

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*I find it kinda weird that my just tightening down the Front Pump that I cannot turn the Input Shaft, any thoughts? comments?

So I am on the hunt for another Front Pump, and the vendor who supplied me the tweaked F5 will get no mention in the build list, my loss is
his loss.

I plan to swap over the Boost Kit and other goodies I put into the F5.

Wish me luck.

Best regards,
George

 

[trackspeeder]

Always pull the input shaft be fore you torque the pump bolts. What happens as you tighten the bolts the pump will ****. This will pinch the input shaft causing it to bind.

This is the way I do it. Instal the input shaft. Instal the pump guide pin. Instal and seat the pump. Remove the guide pin. instal all the bolts finger tight. Remove the input shaft and torque to spec. Re instal the input shaft as a check. If its good remove the shaft and place it in a safe place. Do not drop it, you will end up with an expensive paper weight.

As for turning the shaft, you will have a hard time doing that, because you're turning all the guts. The output shaft is easier.

 

[FORDF250HDXLT]

wow your close now.iv never run into the binding input shaft....yet lmao.that slides in and out super easy like i know the converter should go in/out.i shouldn't speak too soon or this weekend will become a nightmare.

good luck man!

 

[SDEconVan]

TrackSpeeder- Definitely good advice. Those alignment pins are great for rotational alignment, as the pump is on its' way to
getting seated. As for getting seated, right on the money, torquing down the bolts correctly is key to keeping the stator nice
and straight.

Did not know about pulling the Input before torquing all the way down, I'll try that tomorrow. Kind of visualizing the pump binding
up on the Input Shaft which keeps the Pump from finishing the seating process. So I'm guessing, when done right, once seated
the Pump comes back into alignment again... ...then the Input Shaft should be able to install/remove easily(?)

FORDF250HDXLT- Sounds like you got a lot on your own plate brother. I just checked your thread about the Torque Converter
repeatedly giving trouble. OH MAN, that's awful Really trying not to do that, but aren't we all???

**********************************************
I'm waiting on parts so I can go through my E9/F1 Front Pump (I'm choosing to use the Pump that came with the trans,) so this evening,
I started the step after the Pump is installed: checking out the fit of the Torque Converter...

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This is the Front Pump that came with the Transmission, the front half is an E9 casting and the back half is F1. Asking around I
found that they can be mixed like that. HOWEVER, the F5 has larger passageways for fluid to flow in and a few more strengthening
webs here and there. That said, I have found from several sources that for a moderate build (I consider mine NOT that extreme,)
the E9 Front Pump can be upgraded to work well, mostly by using the right Gerator and Boost Valve. These two things alone will
get the pressure where it needs to be. The fluid flow rate is not as high as the F5 and F8 castings, and for a lot of builds, this
comes into play when there is a lot of "slop" in the clearances and endplay. I have been pretty good about keeping the tolerances
tight, even in the Reverse Pack, so I do not need super high Flow Rate, BUT I do want to have good Pressure.

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F5 on right E9/F1, left.

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Black paint came right off, but the 2 years of outdoor storage left a bit of rust on the Stator Shaft... ...this was the original reason
why I dismissed/ignored this pump. I thought it easier to get a "better design" F5, then do my TransGo mods to that one instead.

I did my process of disassembly, Naval Jelly, Scotch Brite wheel and got the rust off,

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(I see so many of these pump painted that I momentarily felt like I should paint my Front Pump- then I came to my senses. Leave it.)

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Front Half removed, F1 remaining, checking for burrs, gunk, lack of hygiene...

(Remember that this was a transmission that was rebuilt, then sat for 2 years, never turned. So most parts are pretty clean. Usually
this would have to go into the cleaning tank, then air, then hand-detailing.)

All three bushings are new so they will stay put. It is normally standard procedure to remove and replace the bushings when rebuilding.

Anybody know how to find out if I have a good quality pump seal? In tiny print it says "NGK" on BOTH Pump Seals. The rubber is black
but the metal is grey. I heard grey rubber is bad, and blue or black rubber is good... ...have not confirmed this.

*****************************************

(Continued...)

 

[SDEconVan]

(Cont.)

Next was a Test Fit of the Torque Converter
(Man, trust me, you DON'T want to find out that things don't fit right when you're on your back, got everything shoved together, and
the sun is going down, and all you got to do is tighten the Bell Housing bolts to draw everything together!!!
(This will make for much sadness.))

"Three Disc, Billet, High Quality... ...ummm... ...Blue... .... "

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See the two flat spots on the Gerator?

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They coincide with the flat spots on the Torque Converter:

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Took the Inner Gerator to see how far down it would seat onto the Torque Convertor:

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I did this so I would know about how far the Converter could slide on, (at the most.)

Now with the Front Half (E9) with the Gerator:

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Gerator is bottomed out, the Front Half would normally stop there too (if the Back Half of the Pump was there.)

Now, holding the Pump Front Half flush with the Gerator, the Pump/Gerator get carefully removed,

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Grease mark showing the lowest spot where the Black Front Seal will ride. Notice above the seal line about 1/2 inch,
there is a rust spot I got to deal with. This spot is right where the Pump Bushing will go!

Next step is to temporarily bolt together the Pump Halves and slide it back onto the Torque Converter:

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This shows how much SPACE there is between the Converter and Pump.

------> IMPORTANT: I put my finger into that gap and felt it, and MEMORIZED IT, so that when I install the transmission,
I will know that the Converter is properly seated by (hopefully) sticking my finger in there to feel it.

(My guess is that just by looking at it I will be able to tell, since I did this little, but important, test.)

Basically, I am doing this to get a feel for a parts fitment I have not worked with before. It can cause quite a headache,
and I will be doing this alone so I won't have anyone with experience to pat me on the shoulder and say "it's perfect! keep going..."
(that only happens in movies...)

that's it for now, more parts coming tomorrow!

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Best regards,
George

 

[FORDF250HDXLT]

no way would i do a reman and not put in the f5/f5 pump.there's a guy on ebay selling good used ones for $90 + free shiping.that's where i just got....two lol.though my converter was the reason for the first failure.
you'll know when the converter is properly set.you can feel two big distinctive thuds.if it presses in easy as you turn it,then it's perfect.something i won't be foolishly overlooking this weekend myself.
i'll be test fitting the pump on the converter first too just like you did.when it's right,you'll know.with a new converter im sure your all good.

that blue converter from racerx? looks like the one i had in chip.

 

[trackspeeder]

You did some pump studying. Any kind of performance build, ditch the E9 or E9 hybrid. They will not keep up with your demands.

Now for that pump seal. Toss it. It's just an aftermarket replacement gray seal. Vitons will be be black, blue, purple, any color but gray. I use Precision #16601EV seal. You can get it at any good parts store.

Hey, don't worry about memorizing your finger. This is how to instal the converter. Bell housing up. Place converter on pump. Turn it until you feel it drop. Usually three steps. You will have about 7/8" of an inch between the converter face and bell housing. If the converter face is equal to or above the bell housing. It is not seated. Turn it again until it drops. Here's another tip. Before you install the tranny. Place some grease on the converter pilot. Also. clean out the pilot hole.