1985 6.9 IDI Issues. NEED HELP ASAP

[JustinC00]

Hello all,
I have recently become the owner of a piece of history it feels like. I've been having some issues with this antique, and being the little bit of a mechanic that i am i need some help. I bought the truck knowing it needed some work(white smoke at idle, leaky injectors, etc.). I started fixing up the things that are a little more self explanatory that i could just look up a quick youtube tutorial on, and its been going fine. Back in October I replaced the injectors and glow plugs hoping to alleviate the white smoke issue, and that didnt really help much, though it does run much better. I suspect the IP is set too high, as the previous owner said that he was going to install a turbo and had the pump tuned for said turbo, but the turbo never made it in. Regardless, the smoke smells like diesel and im sure i can fix that later. My main issue is that the electrical wiring is 35 years old and these trucks are known for wiring issues, thus in my driveway it sits. What i need help with is that I came home from work planning to run in the house and come right back out. I turned off my truck, which beforehand was running without issue, and when i came back out i went to turn the key, and nothing. No clicks, no crank, nothing at all. I started doing some research and found that the starter solenoid on the fender tends to go out, and given that the previous owner had no idea how to do anything on it i wasnt suprised to say the least. Anyways I replaced the solenoid and still nothing from turning the key. I would also like to see how the wires are hooked up if possible because there was a glow plug relay that had only two small wires hooked up to it and i have no clue if the two bigger terminals are used at all. I am very new to the diesel world in the case of owning one, and i bought this for the simplicity.
Here is a list of what i have replaced:
Starter Relay
Ignition Switch(Column Piece when you drop the steering wheel)
Starter
Neutral Safety Switch

I am trying to explain my problem as precise as I can, so im sorry if its confusing. I recently bought and installed the starter and the truck now starts on its own with the key not even in the ignition as soon as the battery is connected. I couldn't have gotten the wires crossed on the starter as there is only one big and one small one. I have looked at every forum on here and many others, but to no avail, so to say the least any help from someone that owns one of these would be greatly appreciated. By the way the batteries are both good, I had them load tested.

 

[quickster]

If it's starting as soon as you touch the cables, it could be your ignition switch on the column. Remove the fuse panel cover, and put your hand up on top of the column and turn the key. The actuator rod should go towards the firewall when you turn the key to start. If it's not moving at all, then it's the crappy pot metal ignition arm that's connected to said actuator arm. Your ignition might be stuck in the on position. Welcome. Put what you're driving in your sig so we know what we're dealing with.

 

[Randy Bush]

Have you tried unplugging the small wire on the fender solinoid to see if it still started? Also check to see if that wire has power to it all the time . should not. other wise just have to follow the power flow.

 

[Selahdoor]

Let's do this by testing the easiest things first, without assuming what the problem is.

Pull the small wire that comes from the ignition switch, off of the starter solenoid that is on the fender. (Once you have pulled that, simply very quickly tapping it against any metal that is grounded will tell you if it has power to it while the switch is off. Sparks.)

If the starter now does not operate when you touch the big cable to the battery, then yes, it is the ignition switch.

But if the starter still does the same thing, it is most likely the starter solenoid that is the problem, not the ignition switch. They will sometimes fuse themselves in the "on" position.


If it's the switch, do as quickster suggests.

If it's the solenoid, replace the solenoid.

 

[JustinC00]

If it's starting as soon as you touch the cables, it could be your ignition switch on the column. Remove the fuse panel cover, and put your hand up on top of the column and turn the key. The actuator rod should go towards the firewall when you turn the key to start. If it's not moving at all, then it's the crappy pot metal ignition arm that's connected to said actuator arm. Your ignition might be stuck in the on position. Welcome. Put what you're driving in your sig so we know what we're dealing with.

Thank you for the replies, all of you. I have dropped the column and the actuator rod moves fine. It goes to each position. In the case of what you said, selahdoor, I happened to move the ignition wire that hooks to the starter and it tried to turn over. I’m getting no power to the ignition switch in the on position. I’m leaning towards a stuck relay. I might have fried it judging from the symptoms I’m experiencing. The wierd thing is that I unhooked every wire from the relay and none of them are touching and the starter still goes. So that’s what confused me.

 

[Selahdoor]

If you 'removed every wire from the relay on the fender, and it still does it'.... Are you sure you were working with the starter relay?

On an 85, I believe the glow plug relay sits in the same vicinity, and looks like the starter solenoid.

Could you take some pics for us?

 

[quickster]

You need to test the neutral safety switch. I just went through this last month. Mine was 6 months old from napa and went bad.

 

[Garbage_Mechan]

Also, you have a starter RELAY on the fender which is used to provide current to pull in the starter SOLENOID on the starter. The starter solenoid also makes the high current connection from batteries to starter motor as well as moving the starter drive gear into engagement. If the starter solenoid is stuck or the contacts welded themselves together, it will crank when batteries are connected regardless of what anything else is doing.

 

[Garbage_Mechan]

Re reading I may have misunderstood original problem. If the problem is not cranking my info is wrong. If it cranks all the time now use my info.

 

[JustinC00]

If you 'removed every wire from the relay on the fender, and it still does it'.... Are you sure you were working with the starter relay?

On an 85, I believe the glow plug relay sits in the same vicinity, and looks like the starter solenoid.

Could you take some pics for us?

Hello fello ford owners, I just got the chance to go out and look at my truck, Sorry for those waiting on pictures and such. There is the little tab on the positive hookup for the starter that was shorting through the body of the starter causing the igniton wire on the starter to get constant power. I fixed the issue and hooked all wires back up, that problem is solved. The key still does nothing. I am getting 12V from the positive on the starter relay(fender), and only around .11V when the key is cranked to the igniton wire. As i said yesterday the neutral safety switch is new.

 

[Farmer Rock]

Hello fello ford owners, I just got the chance to go out and look at my truck, Sorry for those waiting on pictures and such. There is the little tab on the positive hookup for the starter that was shorting through the body of the starter causing the igniton wire on the starter to get constant power. I fixed the issue and hooked all wires back up, that problem is solved. The key still does nothing. I am getting 12V from the positive on the starter relay(fender), and only around .11V when the key is cranked to the igniton wire. As i said yesterday the neutral safety switch is new.

So the truck starts but doesn't start from the key switch? I had that happen to me over the summer, and there was a dead short in between the key switch and the fender relay. There was no way to trace or locate the wire in the factory harness, so I temporarily ran a push button, but recently ran a new wire from the clutch safety switch to the starter relay and it's all good now. If your key switch and ignition are good, then you may have a dead short somewhere along that wire like I did.


Rock

 

[JustinC00]

So the truck starts but doesn't start from the key switch? I had that happen to me over the summer, and there was a dead short in between the key switch and the fender relay. There was no way to trace or locate the wire in the factory harness, so I temporarily ran a push button, but recently ran a new wire from the clutch safety switch to the starter relay and it's all good now. If your key switch and ignition are good, then you may have a dead short somewhere along that wire like I did.


Rock

Hello guys, so i researched a bit more and i swore that i had found a video that was a tutorial on how to test the NSS and the relay on the fender. The man was working on a gas engine but it had the same symptoms as i have had. He had little to no power at the ignition switch, and he had a new NSS, so there was 12V at the switch, which I have. Does anybody know how to replace the wire that runs from the starter relay and the glow plug controller to the NSS?

 

[quickster]

Don't replace any wires till you rule out the switches. You need to test the nss. Pull the plug on it and check for continuity.

 

[JustinC00]

Hello guys. I really need help. If anyone has a step by step tutorial on how to require the ignition system that would be great

 

[Big Bart]

Some more thoughts to perhaps help out.

1) Start at the starter soleniod.
Most have 2 big terminals, the front (Faces the headlight.) generally takes the battery + cable and any power feeds (IE ignition switch and glow plug relay.), the right side (Passenger seat facing) takes the starter cable that delivers the power to the starter. Could be reversed, could be both sides have additional cables due to mods, it really does not matter as one side got to the batteries and the other the starter. So make sure you have power to the Ign switch. (Above it says you do.) Otherwise you could have left a wire off when your replaced it.
2) Most solenoids also have two small connectors (Some have one.)
You have to make sure you use the right one. One energizes the solenoid to make the starter connection, the other delivers power when the solenoid and starter are energized. (Some older fords used the second pin to energize the coil during starting. If this/these connectors are left off or put on the wrong side you have no start issues and might be energizing the coil.
3) A good mechanic will strive to find the problem, not just fix a symptom of the problem. (Also avoid expensive part changing.)
As mentioned above do so some checks, tackle with a plan, it could be more than one issue. Never assume new parts are good/working or will last as long as the original Ford part did.
Wiring issues at times are not seen till under load. (Works via a OHM or continuity test, but under load heats up and fails.) So test with a hooked up circuit to avoid being mislead.
I would jump from battery to the start pin on the soleniod and engage the solenoid to see if the engine cranks with a jumper wire or starter switch. Also if you have a amp meter hooked up (Sun VAT - 40,60,XX Snap On MT XXXX, or just a amp probe on a multimeter) to check the amperage draw and voltage to see if the starter is working or creating too much amperage/voltage draw and will burn up your new solenoid quickly again. (Probably not your issue, but now you know its not the starter or wiring to the starter.) Also what does your voltage drop to when starting. If under 9v things like your IP pump cut off solenoid, may turn off, thus no start. If your batteries are low/weak/bad it may click but not turn the starter. (You would see your voltage drop below 9v as you try to start.) Good batteries will show 12.4-12.6v standing (So if less than 12, put a charger on, it mentioned 11v above.) and will keep your voltage from dropping much less than 9v when starting or glow plugs are on.
4) You have but always check to see if you are getting 12v to the starter solenoid first when in the start position. (You appear to not be gettting that.) Also does the starter solenoid have a good ground. (Takes both a good + and - to make a circut work. Fender well rusty, screws holding solenoid rusty, perhaps sand/grind fender well and use fresh screws.) Next you should go in the cab and check your wiring to see if your ignition switch has 12v going to it. Then if the wire to the starter system (Neutral safefty, clutch safety, solenoid) is getting 12v. (Back probe thus testing with a load not unplugged. Just because your rod moves, does not mean it engages the ignition switch fully. Just because the switch is working unplugged does not mean it works with a load. Then check the clutch safety switch if a stick shift. (As I recall it has one, but not 100% sure mine is a automatic. Also not sure if so if a stick uses both a clutch and neutral saftey switch, may just use one of those.) Then check the neutral safety switch. Are both switches getting 12v in upon starting, is 12v leaving when starting. If not then you know it is between the clutch safety switch and the neutral safety swich, or the neutral safety switch and the solenoid.(It may be in reverse, not sure which safety swtich is in line first on a stick, but guessing its the clutch safety due to being next to the ign switch.) Pull out a wiring diagram (These too can be wrong or confusing, but generally correct and helpful.) and follow along probing every so often till you find the short. Or buy a short finder and see if you can determine where the short is without poking into the wire till a short is detected. Use liquid tape where every you poke into a wire. Prevents corrosion or issues in the future. (Not endorsing products or site below, just giving you ideas of what I have.)

https://www.amazon.com/Tool-Aid-251...&keywords=Short+finder&qid=1617644034&sr=8-15

https://www.amazon.com/Power-Probe-...1&keywords=Short+finder&qid=1617644060&sr=8-5

https://www.amazon.com/Star-brite-L...jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==

Let us know when you have it fixed what the problem turned out to be.

All the best!