big hp idi

[rhkcommander]

You are confused by what i was trying to get at goose. Oppositely mounted pumps could share a gear potentially cutting down on machining costs for a dual mount setup but the new pump would be spinning "backwards". Thats why i suggested the 6.2 style pump which already spins "backwards" in relation to our engines. They would fire together at the same time, same cylinder, double the fuel.

I need to take a look at the oil fill/gear housing when i get home and see how feasible it would be. Otherwise we'd have to do dual pumps side by side in a probably cnc'd housing. Design is simple enough but most people with cnc's want an arm and a leg to recoup initial and maintenance costs of their machine.

Might not be possible to fit two gears side by side without changing more anyway... Ill check in the next day or two. Just the top gear housing would be cheaper than digging into the lower portions...

 

[tanman_2006]

I think having a belt pulley bolted on the gear then side by sides could be fairly simple. Maybe make a shaft with a seal of some sort.

I like the idea of 2 different timings for an extended injection event but we would have to insure that it doesn't turn into 2 separate injection events

 

[FordGuy100]

But then your limited by a belt, which I would not feel comforatable at all using besides competition use. What happens if the belt slips for a milisecond and timing goes 100* off while WOT? It would be a big worry of mine.

 

[racer30]

OK.... So build a chain drive assembly, already have oil in the front gear housing, build aluminum case to cover the chain system, put two db2 pumps side by side, use two ajusters to set tension and timing. Oil drains back into the valley pan. It could be done...

 

[tanman_2006]

But then your limited by a belt, which I would not feel comforatable at all using besides competition use. What happens if the belt slips for a milisecond and timing goes 100* off while WOT? It would be a big worry of mine.

Belts are used on plenty of engines for timing drives. I'm not that worried if proper tension and belt condition is maintained, none of this is a bolt on mod obviously but a belt set up can be done for alot less cash than getting a new timing cover machined.

 

[88beast]

ok the big concern with two pumps is we only have one injector per cylinder the hard part is adding a new injector or tapping into the oem line with another line but that could cause even more issues with backpressure

 

[tanman_2006]

ok the big concern with two pumps is we only have one injector per cylinder the hard part is adding a new injector or tapping into the oem line with another line but that could cause even more issues with backpressure

When going custom, fuel lines are the least of your worries. I'm gonna say slightly larger lines and a good flowing T or Y will be a must.

 

[Dieselcrawler]

i find it quite funny how some of you are scared of belt drive failing. it isnt like a v belt or a serp. it is a Cogged belt. thing of a top fuel motor. the blower belt. same thing just smaller. no way for it to "slip" unless it strips cogs off. and if it does that, you need to find out why. not going to be the belts fault. VW, perkins, and a bunch of otheres run everything off a timing belt. cam and IP. thats more stress than dual IP would put on it. cams are hard to turn compared to our pumps

 

[tjsea]

I think mel could answer this question best, can you take the 6.2/6.5 db2 guts and put them in a 6.9/7.3 housing in order to have a reverse rotation pump or do the6.2/6.5 pumps already have the same mounting flange as the ford pumps?(maybe a dumb question as I havent ever had a chevy db2 to look at up close)

 

[tanman_2006]

Never had a Ford pump up close so I can't help much. I think using a reverse rotation pump is the wrong way to go about this idea. I know in a chevy space is limited and a pump in front of the motor won't work well.

 

[Wyreth]

Going way back to the twostage injector discussion:

What about deliberately using a two pump system to cause a multi injection event. Have one pump running very lean on fuel, initially inject 1* before the primary pump injects a large dose of fuel into an already burning pre-cup. It seems to me, that would get you a little more efficient burn out of the fuel. Also more of a "burn" and less of a "boom." Which would translate to better torque, and a tiny bit less stress on the engine internals.

Just some drunken musing.

 

[88 Ford]

That can actually be done with injectors themselves. Mercedes used to produce an injector that had a lower pop pressure for the pre-injection and then the second injection happened after pop pressure built up enough to overcome the second spring in the injector.

 

[Wyreth]

That can actually be done with injectors themselves. Mercedes used to produce an injector that had a lower pop pressure for the pre-injection and then the second injection happened after pop pressure built up enough to overcome the second spring in the injector.

I know, that was the "Going way back to the twostage injector discussion:" part. =P

However, they don't make a direct fit two stage injector for our engines. At least not that I know of; and if you have two IP's. You could simulate that effect, but at a much higher fuel rate. My brain says that might be a more efficient way of burning the same amount of fuel.

 

[Goose_ss4]

does anyone know if the precups are up to the task of staying hot the entire time? i know it was dicussed awhile ago that one of the main drawbacks of the idi design is the waste of heat. mainly through the cylinder head. i am not talking about the engine coolant system, but the way we make power. i though the idea, and what i think we are talking about now, is to extend or produce more heat by increasing the injection event longer/bigger i.e. more fuel. i was talking to another forum/member, and read some interesting SAE and DOT papers on these designs to change or modify the existing precups. what i take from it that in order for the idi design to effiecent the pre combustion chamber must remain as hot as possible during the entire combustion process to the next to auto ignite the fuel for the next go around. by increasing the fuel to keep this temperature up. who knows if the precups are up for the task? the other meber seemed to think, and with good evidence to, the current form of the precups loose to much heat energy through the cylinder head itself. meaning it disapates the heat to much, and this kind of heat is what we need. this what makes power in the idi diesel world.

options that were talked about, and what he said "i am working on" was a new design of precup that had a sheild or layer of insulating metal between the precup and the head to keep that baby glowing hot the entire time. this might prevent precups from going bad without being in contact with two way different temperature surfaces and cracking. obvisouly this research seem a little out there for me, and sounds way expensive for custom made precup from some body. (who?)

the idea is theasable though. just at diesel power's article on piston desgin quoteing that a flat top diesel piston design like in our idi were the most efficent. unlike the direct injected diesel of modern trucks, who have to keep a very large precup in the piston hot with what i like to call a "pilot light" to run. they waste more fule for the power they run. thanks but ill keep my 7.3 anyday of the week.

as far mounting two pumps, i think we need to look at a couple of engine that have the oil fill/ timing cover gear drive off. mount two pumps low right up close to the cam gear would be awsome and cheap to retro fit, but would mean a custom intake manifold, which wouldnt be that bad.

p.s.
i am not running anything from a chevy on my truck ever!

 

[88beast]

or we get custom ground fuel cams that will give the tow stage effect with one pump really that would be easier than mounting 2 pumps and mel or anyone else with pump knoledge could install it.

also i am suprised very few have looked into custom fuel cams. the fuel cam would need matched to the pop pressre to make sure you have the fuel you need.

EX: youre fuel cam makes pressure in a esclating arc this arc can be changed to match a higher pop or lower pop. a short flat arc (think motor cam) with a low pop injector would create a longer steadier burn while a pointed high arch would give a sharp quick injection. now higher psi atomizes better but.. we loose out on the gradual burn effect someone needs to design a cam to give us above 2100 psi for a few more degrees of timing. then also sell a matched sert of injectors for that pump