Another starting dilemma

[Optikalillushun]

Monday i went to start my 88 since it was so cold and i had time before work. it was about 5* with a wind chill of -15* so i thought id see how quick it fires up.

i let the GPs cycle, took about 12 seconds and let it rip...nothing. tried another 3 times before it started. it kinda bummed me out, i thought it would turn over and fire on the first cycle. it was turning over ok but not really fast, but i know the batteries arent the best.

so, besides the batteries anything else i should look at? the pump was done 2 yrs ago, less than 15,000 miles. it has new injectors, return line kit and GPs last feburary so i dont think its air intrustion. the starter is original but never gave me a problem before. every other time it was cold, 20* roughly, it started pretty good on the first cycle. so am i getting paranoid or should i just suck it up and replace the batteries. they are about 4-5 yrs old and are interstate mega trons. last yr they were used hard when my return lines were bad and i had to really crank it to get it running.

 

[zpd307]

i noticed when the cold hit, my crappy mismatched batteries fell on their face. with the new starter and battery cables, it turned over really fast. so i thought i could get by this winter on the batteries. i was wrong.

 

[MIDNIGHT RIDER]

Good HOT batteries (and the more the better) are the main factor in starting a diesel engine that is cold.

You can have everything else in perfect condition and a slow-cranking battery not turn the engine with the quick authority necessary to build the compression heat required for ignition.

On the other hand, you can have a dozen little "problems", yet have plenty of good HOT battery-power, and the engine will fire right off.

 

[VanBoy]

Cold weather really brings out the WORST in your starting systems.

Happened to me on a Ford C-8000 COE w/ a 3208 Cat. I had just bought it during the summer and never looked in the battery box since it started fine all summer & fall. Come winter, I was going to move it- it turned over, but not enough. I ended up trying way too many times and "welded" the starter solenoid so it was trying to start all the time (w/ no luck). I rush to the battery and pull off the cover- I see two mismatch batteries!!! They were not even Group 31 or those HUGE batteries but two automotive batteries! I rip off the grounds and it stops. Just for kicks, I touch the ground back and the starter starts right up (well, tries too).

And for you that worked on 3208 starters..... you know how BIG and heavy they are.... Expensive lesson learned..... put in 4 new batteries (forgot the group size), 00 cables AND a starter.

 

[MIDNIGHT RIDER]

Expensive lesson learned..... put in 4 new batteries (forgot the group size),

I hope they were either Group-31 or Group-30, as that is the "standard" battery of the diesel world.


By the way, G-30 and G-31 are identical except for the positioning of the studs.

 

[VanBoy]

I hope they were either Group-31 or Group-30, as that is the "standard" battery of the diesel world.


By the way, G-30 and G-31 are identical except for the positioning of the studs.

Well, what ever they were, they've been in there for over 4 years. They died once (during the summer of all things), never found out why. I recharged them and they've been doing well so far. If it's not TOO cold, that old 3208 will start (but smoke like ****** before it smooths out).

From what I recall, they seemed 'small' for the box. I had to put in some 2x4's to keep the batteries grouped together. I think the box was made for two of those HUGE rectangular batteries (aka back brakers in my book ). One of these days I'll go take a look.

My 90 7.3L IDI was hard to start today. I have not driven it for a while, planned to yesterday (plugged it in yesterday), but unplugged it last night. Today, I had to try 3 or 4 times before it finally ran. It caught 2 times, but as soon as I let go of the accelerator it died. Batteries cranked over good and fast.... GP's cycled fine. Crank time seemed like it was 5 seconds or more..... temps were not that cold... just the teens. GP's stayed on maybe 10 seconds or more.... didn't count. Oh well. Maybe its' fuel related (something drained back).

 

[Optikalillushun]

fired it up after about a week and it was above freezing. took two cycles but it started much easier. funny thing is, i have zero knock on cold start, it just idles at normal. i have to find out why my high idle isnt working.

definatly going to check out the group 31 batteries. i can massage the battery trays to fit :-d

 

[buick4d]

I would say you might need a new starter. I had almost the same problem. In the end. I had to replace the starter. Starter would turn the engine over, but not fast enough to fire the engine.

 

[icanfixall]

A gear reduction Mitsubishi starter will crank the motor over so fast you can't count the revolutions. I mean its really fast. The stock direct drive ba starters are way too slow. As posted... Faster cranking heats up the air so there is enough heat to fire off the fuel. Diesel requires around 940 degrees to lite off. That heat is created by the compression cramming all those air moliques into a tiny area. They start bouncing off each other and that makes the air heat up. Glow plugs just help on cold startups. I don't think the Cummins have glow plugs and many large diesels don't have them either. Just compression. I don't know if its true or not but I was told that some Detroits have a 32 to 1 compression ratio and about 850 lbs of cranking compression. Anybody know if this is true or not???

 

[f-two-fiddy]

Yeah, I'll agree with Gary. I've got 2 YO batts, Denso GR starter and batterycable.com cables.

The thing spins and starts so fast, it's amazing

 

[ghunt]

I just replaced the 7 year old batteries two weeks ago...and last night I threw on a new starter solenoid (starter mounted) and cleaned all the battery terminals really good (had a no crank issue for a few days).

It seems like it now cranks faster than it did.

I have a new positive battery cable on the way anyway, because I think that was the biggest part of the problem with the no crank issue.

 

[Optikalillushun]

well, i dont have the $$ for a starter so ill wait till it takes a ****. when its warm out, it spins over pretty fast. ill be on the look out for a starter come spring time.

all my battery cable ends are clean, it was one of the things i did when i bought it.

 

[MIDNIGHT RIDER]

That heat is created by the compression cramming all those air moliques into a tiny area.

What is a "molique" ??

Glow plugs just help on cold startups. I don't think the Cummins have glow plugs and many large diesels don't have them either.

These particular International diesel engines are INDIRECT INJECTION, thus necessitating the use of glow-plugs for initial ignition of a cool engine.

The Cummins, along with most other diesels are DIRECT INJECTION and do not require nor have glow-plugs; properly tuned, they will fire at the slightest lift of a piston, regardless of temperature.


A lot of confusion is created by Dodge's use of intake grid-heaters and a "wait to start" light; this is in no way a requirement for starting the engine, but a cold engine emmissions issue.

 

[NCheek]

What is a "molique" ??

a molecule

 

[MIDNIGHT RIDER]

What is a "molique" ??

a molecule

Oh, I get it now; molique is French for molecule; I learn something everyday.