Let's Talk Intercoolers

[F350camper]

James, I wouldn’t say the bar and plate is better, just different. The bar and plate uses a heat sync mentality. While the tube and fin takes advantage of superior airflow through it. (on the outside) . So the tube and fin is a better choice if it totally covers your radiator, as more air will be allowed to flow from the grille through the IC and onto the radiator in a less turbulent way. Thanks to the nice aerodynamic shape of the tubes. On the bar and plate design, you have very non-aerodynamic square bars on the leading edge. So the air from the grill is totally interfered with and very turbulent as it tries to blow through the IC. But, since it is a heat sync design, you don’t need outside airflow on the whole thing. You can have several key areas in the airflow, and the bars will leach the heat from the non exposed areas. So the thought is, if you’re going to have one that covers your radiator, use tube and fin. If you’re going to try to use a thicker one and tuck it below your radiator, or off to the side, use bar and plate. I think Calvin (towcat) has the best of both worlds. A tube and fin with many bar and plate attributes that doesn’t cover the radiator.

As far as size goes, you should shoot for about 1,000 cubic inches core volume. (H x W x L) be sure not to include the end tanks in your core measurement.

 

[ttman4]

Thanks Rob, This helps me a lot. This forum has been a big help overall....too much info here & not enough time to look & read though.
Thanks again.
James

 

[WILLD]

Lots of good info here. For 2 wd guys I think the IC could be mounted just about anywhere it will get air. For normal 4wd guys I think partial covering of the rad would be o.k. For guys like me that occasionally do things that fullsize trucks were never intended to do, I think I will just have to do without an IC until I figure out how to mount one on top of the cab or in the bed where I can't run something through it, pack it with mud, or break it by pounding snow drifts.

Ebay is a really good source of IC's I was actually considering running two t-bird types since they are small and usually sell for cheap.

 

[JohnDeStef]

BTW guys, I haven't thrown away my intake plenum when I changed it out with my ATS supplied unit. So, if somebody wants it for their project....talk to me via PM.

You've been PM'd!

 

[JohnDeStef]

You've been PM'd!

Bummer, guess I'm still looking. Thanks for the PM Towcat. Anyone have a 93-94 turbo intake plenum? F350Camper, are you manufacturing the 'Blizzard Air" plenums yet??? :Sly

 

[towcat]

guys-
just for the record....the intake hat(stocker ATS unit) is already gone.

 

[JohnDeStef]

Fortunately with my front bumper chin spoiler I have alot of room to mount the intercooler beneath the bumper.

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I want to utilize the cutouts of the chin spoiler. I'm leaning towards a bar and plate intercooler. Something around 24x12x4 core size. That should allow me to mount the intercooler beneath the radiator but still allow air flow to more than half of the intercooler.
There are many intercoolers on eBay, especially the factory Ford/GM ones from GOBANKS' eBay store . The factory ones don't look like they are in the 24x12x4 range though....?
Here's a couple I've been watching, any thoughts Towcat/F350camper/others?

Lancer/EVO III intercooler
Bar and plate core is 12.4" tall X 20" wide X 28 and 3.75 " thick

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MISHIMOTO Deluxe FMIC Intercooler
Overall Size: 31" x 12" x 4" (Tank to Tank)
Core Size: 24" x 12" x 4"
Inlet/Outlet: 3"

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4" monster intercooler
4" thick-24" long core-12" high-3" inlet/outlet-1cfm @ 1.5 psi drop

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Any and ALL comments and suggestions are greatly appreciated!!!

 

[towcat]

i'll crawl under my truck this morning and get some measurements. But it looks like any of the above ic's will fit.

 

[JohnDeStef]

The factory Ford/GM intercoolers, I believe, have the inlets/outlets aiming back to the engine, vs. the aftermarkets going out the side and even at an angles. Since you've done the installs, what is the best direction for the inlets/outlets to point? Keep in mind I'll be installing mine infront/below the lower radiator core support.
I'm going to email the seller GOBANKS and ask for the measured sizes of their intercoolers.

 

[JohnDeStef]

Oh my...... these guys are from Banks? this the email exchange with GOBANKS....

I have a '93 F350 with a newer Banks Sidewinder, and I'd like to add an intercooler. I don't believe Banks has a 'plug-n-play' intercooler kit for my truck....? That's why I'm looking at the factory Ford/GM take offs you have for sale. Could you please give me the core and complete measurements for the intercoolers you have? Are they bar/plate or fin/tube intercoolers? I'll be mounting mine below/infront of the lower radiator core support, since I have a chin spoiler with cut outs on the front bumper.

Response from gobanks
Item: 1999-2003 Ford 7.3L Power Stroke F250/F350 Intercoolers (8029993661)
This message was sent while the listing was active.
gobanks is the seller.
John,
The earlier motor do not produce much boost. You may see about 13 lbs. max. Adding an intercooler will reduce power. The boost will drop 2-3 lbs. because of the extra area the air is flowing through. For that reason we never made an intercooler for this application. I will give you the dimensions of the '99-'03 intercoolers.

Core width-30 inches
Core height-18 inches
Core thickness-2 inches
Inlet and outlet diameter is 3 1/4 inches

Thank You,
Technical Department

 

[towcat]

The factory Ford/GM intercoolers, I believe, have the inlets/outlets aiming back to the engine, vs. the aftermarkets going out the side and even at an angles. Since you've done the installs, what is the best direction for the inlets/outlets to point? Keep in mind I'll be installing mine infront/below the lower radiator core support.
I'm going to email the seller GOBANKS and ask for the measured sizes of their intercoolers.

For me, the side inlet was a "better" choice. Firstly, in the towtruck world, changing out radiator supports due to stress fractures is very common. So, if there is any way I can avoid cutting into a already overstressed piece of sheetmetal, I will go that route. I am glad I went the half height route after my experience with my AC failing this last summer. The stocker PSD IC's sit in the middle of the stack with the AC condenser in the front. The previous owner of the truck retro'd R134 into the truck and you need every inch of evap for the crap to cool the cabin properly. With my IC install, half of it was blocked. Its enough to keep things happy with the AC when moving, but in traffic, the system went into overpressure and vented all is freon. This was on my first day on the road to TX. Not a good thing. Needless to say, it was a very warm three months in that truck of mime.
The plumbing on the side inlet is a little more convoluted. Mime was preformed from ATS, so I avoided some major fab work. Rob built his Down the road, from a service standpoint, changing out the coupling hoses will be easier on the through the radiator support type and major sheetmetal removal will be needed on the side inlet type. But regular cooling system service...ie. pulling the radiator is much easier since the IC doesn't interfere with that whole area.
hope this helps.

 

[F350camper]

that monster 4" thick one seems identical to mine. Though, I think the core on mine is 28" wide. In any case that one would work. They all look like they'll work. To get the clearance for the 4", I had to really flatten out that center support bar behind the grill. Your biggest challenge is going to be the intake hat. The waste gate actuator sits right over the intake.
http://oilburners.net/forums/showthread.php?t=5811&highlight=intake+hat

 

[JohnDeStef]

Oh my...... these guys are from Banks? this the email exchange with GOBANKS....

I have a '93 F350 with a newer Banks Sidewinder, and I'd like to add an intercooler. I don't believe Banks has a 'plug-n-play' intercooler kit for my truck....? That's why I'm looking at the factory Ford/GM take offs you have for sale. Could you please give me the core and complete measurements for the intercoolers you have? Are they bar/plate or fin/tube intercoolers? I'll be mounting mine below/infront of the lower radiator core support, since I have a chin spoiler with cut outs on the front bumper.

Response from gobanks
Item: 1999-2003 Ford 7.3L Power Stroke F250/F350 Intercoolers (8029993661)
This message was sent while the listing was active.
gobanks is the seller.
John,
The earlier motor do not produce much boost. You may see about 13 lbs. max. Adding an intercooler will reduce power. The boost will drop 2-3 lbs. because of the extra area the air is flowing through. For that reason we never made an intercooler for this application. I will give you the dimensions of the '99-'03 intercoolers.

Core width-30 inches
Core height-18 inches
Core thickness-2 inches
Inlet and outlet diameter is 3 1/4 inches

Thank You,
Technical Department

 

[82fordtruck]

I suppose I have a different take on this boost loss.

When you compress air, it gets hot. Hence the need for an intercooler. When it gets hot, it expands. When we use the intercooler, it cools, and contracts.

There is a small amount of pressure drop due to friction, but I believe this to be more or less negligible in this case.

When the air cools, there is no les oxygen, it is simply in a more dense form, and cooler as well. This is great for stuffing more air into a given space, and for EGT's, both of which we are interested in. The cooler air is the same as using a cowl or ram air intake. Any engine benefits from cooler air.

the pressure drop is certianly worth considering, but we can turn the boost up more anyway. Even if we don't do this, we are still not losing ground because we have a cooler, more dense air charge.

For this reason, I do not believe there to be any such thing as too big of an intercooler. The flow rating is worth considering, or course, but a bigger intercooler will just provide a bigger temperature drop, up to a point. These trucks tend to run cool anyway, it's hard as hell to get one to overheat if everything works properly.


I just read this whole post from the beginning, but I wanted to comment on the CFM part as well. The beginning of this post was treating CFM as a constant, such that if it flows 100 CFM, that's it. That's not how that works really. Pressure is to be considered as well. If it flows 100 CFM at 15 PSI, it may do 300 CFM at 30 PSI. For this reason, it is very possible that our engines do use close to the air required for a 6.0, especially at a given load. We don't use near as much boost either, so ours don't need as much cooling, but they have more boost, and can push more air through it. So, I would think that our trucks may need an intercooler as big as theirs to do what we need.

As far as blocking the radiator, I am a bit skeptical. You can see right through these things, right? If so, there will be almost no decrease in air flow, like maybe 5%. Next, I bet there is 20x as much air flowing through the front of the truck on the highway (when it matters) as there is flowing through the engine. If you have a 100 degree temperature drop, you are only increasing the air inlet temp 5 degrees.

So, we may be reducing the effectiveness of the radiator by 7% or so. I think these are generous (conservative) guesses. But, at the same time, we are causing the engine to run a little cooler, assuming a given load again. So, these things should cancel themselves to a point where it is not noticeable. I wonder if this percieved increase is just a factor of us thinking there should be one.

 

[F350camper]

I can say that with my setup, the pipe from the turbo to the IC is too hot to touch for more that a few seconds. the pipe from the IC to the intake is nice and cool, same temp as the fender. So I belive this mod is worth doing.