Why should I keep the IDI?

stuborn nut

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Well it's time to start thinking about replacing my 6.9l. I don't know what direction to go. I'm leaning toward a idi, have some cores and I could build it in pieces. So what do you guys thing on a rebuilt idi vs. a used cummins?

one other question what are the pros and cons of a 6.9l vs. 7.3l

I have one 7.3l that needs sleeved. I have a couple 6.9l that are standard bore that could just get a overbore. Are there any turbo pistons for the 6.9l available?

How long do the fuel parts on the cummins last? I have found some used engines in wrecking yards for $1,500+ seems like they start about 150,000 miles. Then you got to get it bolted to the tranny or get a tranny and tcase also.
 

The Warden

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Replacing the 6.9l with another IDI (be it another 6.9l or a 7.3l) will be exponentially cheaper than swapping a 6BT Cummins in. At the same time, if you're looking to hot-rod it or if you're going to run the truck forever, the 6BT may be more cost-effective in the long run...fewer modifications need to be made to the engine to hold up to power, and it'll run forever. If your truck's a two wheel drive, you can just use a Dodge transmission and not have to worry about adapter plates, but if you're 4x4, IMHO you'd do better with an adapter plate and stick with the Ford transmission/transfer case. OTOH, if you have various IDI parts already, are familiar with the engine, and aren't planning to hot-rod it, you'd do better to stick with the IDI IMHO.

I haven't had any direct experience with the 6BT yet, but I've owned other vehicles with Bosch fuel systems...and, I have yet to see a mechanical Bosch injector pump or injector set that was a wear item the way the Stanadyne fuel system parts on the IDI's are. On an IDI, if your pump or injectors are past 100K miles, you're on borrowed time, whereas on a Mercedes-Benz diesel (I use this example since I have plenty of experience with them, and they use a Bosch fuel system), while the fuel injectors may need to be cleaned and may need new tips in an extreme case, failures in the fuel injection system are very rare. At the same time, if an injector pump does let go for any reason (generally too many years of poorly filtered, low-quality fuel), it's going to be hideously expensive to replace. I think it's fair to say that the 6BT fuel system will be broadly similar to the M-B fuel system.

As to the 6.9l vs the 7.3l...the 7.3l has larger head bolts, which allows you to apply more torque to them to keep the heads down and lowers the chance of head gasket problems. However, the cylinder walls are thinner, and cavitation becomes a much more significant problem. IMHO if you can afford it, the ideal setup would be to take a 7.3l block, sleeve it to use 6.9l pistons, and run head studs...and you should be good to go ;Sweet

The 6.9l doesn't have significant cavitation problems (the problem isn't non-existent, but it's nowhere nearly as prominent as on the 7.3l), but you have smaller head bolts and effectively less clamping force, and if the block was made before about midway through the 1985 model year, there's a weak spot near the block heater that can crack. Not impossible to fix if you or someone you know knows how to weld cast iron, but very tricky and probably not worth the time/expense. If your block ID number is higher than #173828, this won't be a problem for you.

I don't know of any "turbo pistons" for the 6.9l; however, AFAIK the only difference in the rotating assembly between the n/a 7.3l and the factory turbo 7.3l is a larger wrist pin; I think the pistons are similar otherwise, and finding replacement connecting rods for the factory turbo block is becoming increasingly more difficult.

Hope this helps some...sounds like a fun project in any event. Good luck with it ;Sweet
 

kc0stp

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IMHO if you can afford it go 6BT any day of the week, will far out last any IDI out there and possibly the truck as well. As far as how often the fuel system wears out on a 6bt the answer is it doesn't, the O-rings for the injectors will dry rot before the injector wears out (same with the pump)
 

BDOGONE

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eBay. Reman 7.3 for $1300 shipped! Listed here just recently....


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BDOGONE

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Here's the EBay Seller...
U-techcenter


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04_6.0

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Ive done a 97 p pump 12v with 147k in a 04 superduty and kept the ford drivetrain. I was fairly easy and straight forward to drop the motor in place. I did it on the cheap at first. It came back to bite me a few times. I didnt change the head gasket when i did the swap. 30k later it started leaking when i started adding fuel and boost. On the cheap it will cost you about 3,000 (including adapter plate). But you will have to put more time and money into it. It will eventually cost you more time and money than doing it all correct the first time around. Id say closer to 5k (including adapter plate) maybe more to do a swap and do it right. (new gaskets, head studs, good new clutch, modify drivshafts, a/c system, cruise control) You know creature comforts so the wife doesnt mind driving it. you may say right now i dont want anything performance on the truck. For 200 bucks and a little bit of time it will wake that motor up and it will pull like a freight train.
 

TWeatherford

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Well from my signature you can see the way I'm going. From what I've read on here, I would not rebuild an IDI. They just don't seem to take to it well. Members have swapped in rebuilt engines and had problems, and done it themselves and had problems shortly (not all, but way too many for my comfort).

If you do rebuild it, you still have to deal with injection pumps and injectors that crap out every 100k. Then, unless the batteries, starter, cables, and fuel system are 100% it won't start well in the cold (maybe not a big deal for you). Cheese **** fuel return system that will need annual attention. Mechanical fuel pump that should be removed, thrown as far as possible, and replaced with an electric pump. Head gaskets that aren't known for staying in place for too long, and you won't be able to push much pressure to it or they won't last at all. Little aftermarket support. Better have a great cooling system or it won't stay cool on hills even empty. And you'll be living with 130-200 hp, which does not work for me with 6% grades at 7000 ft even empty. Heck my IDI couldn't handle a 3% grade of any length empty, without a downshift, here at 7000 ft.

Last trip up the hill from Phoenix I had my IDI floored, alternating between 2nd and 3rd gear, watching the water temp and pyro like a hawk. When I made trips around Colorado, I drove around the section of I-70 west of Denver, and Leadville, because I wasn't in the mood for 2nd gear empty. Drove my 97 home from Phoenix with the Cummins in it, with holes in the intercooler leaking boost like crazy, still pushing 30 psi and didn't even downshift out of 5th once, and had lots of power to spare. Of course, now I'm re-doing the swap due to a non intelligent life form previous owner, and there are lots of things to figure out and overcome. From what I've read, the fuel system is pretty stout (just the size of my P-7100 compared to a Stanadyne DB2 is crazy, plus it has an engine oil supply. Though the IPs are expensive. Just look on a Cummins forum, and bad IPs are hardly talked about, here its about every 4th post. No glowplugs, just grid heaters that often aren't necessary. NippoDenso starters that can be rebuilt yourself easily. Vacuum pump that you can rebuild yourself. No need to mess with turbo up pipes, just bolt it to the manifold and hook up the exhaust. Need to time it? Less than $200 in all mechanical tools and you can do it easily, without guess and checking with hard to reach nuts to adjust the IP. The timing will stay that way for many miles, and you don't have to rely on old electronics to time in the future. Advance it all you want because there's no glow plugs to burn up (though other things may not like too much timing).

You asked for opinions, so there's mine. Hope I don't offend anyone. Some people can make the IDI work for them, I did for 5 years and am done with them.
 

Agnem

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It's always a question of money. You could put in a Cummins, and end up with a very solid power plant that delivers loads of power way beyond what an IDI can produce comfortably, or you could even buy a new to you truck for about the same money that already has one in it. Or you can stay on the economical side and stick with the IDI. But if you DO decide to go Cummins, realize that you are looking at big money any time you have an issue. I can sell you a brand new fuel system for your IDI, AND install it for you also, for about the same money as it will take to rebuild a P pump with bad plungers and barrels or a wiped cam. Yes, it's true -those pumps do hold up exceptionally well. But you could also end up with a Cummins with a VE pump. They are not as expensive to rebuild but are not without their problems either. I don't subscribe to the "you can't get or build a reman IDI that is reliable" theory, so I would discount that heavily. I've seen many home rebuilt or commercial reman IDI's that are just fine. If you go IDI, you know what the costs are. If you go Cummins, it's a sliding scale. Just make sure you have the money to make a full commitment.
 

dizdak

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i am in the same boat, i love my truck just totally dislike the motor... honestly it hasn't given me really any problems, but the "always want more" factor comes in for me.. i am strongly considering doing a cummins swap..
 

kas83

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Sounds like guys are starting to compare these things to 6.2/6.5s. Both are great platforms, just need to be used properly. Seems like too many people like to abuse their trucks.

Go ahead and put a Cummins in it. I've had 2 hopped 12 valve CTDs making well over 400rwhp each. Fun to drive, smoked the tires at ease, got close to 20mpg while hopped up. Make sure you take care of the KDP.
I like the IDI for my uses, my power needs, and just plain liking the truck. To each their own. In fact, I traded my 95 CTD for my last IDI, and 85 F350 CC, and never thought twice. Had it not been for wrecking it, I'd still have that truck.

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The Warden

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That's an easy question, best, simple, most reliable diesel engine ever put in a Ford.

Want a Cummins? That's easy too, buy a Dodge. :)
I can see the logic for swapping a Cummins into a Ford if you want a mechanically-injected crew-cab, or if you prefer the Ford chassis. Best of both worlds IMHO ;Sweet
 

rattleonby

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Ive worked on almost every engine put in the big 3....it all really comes down to what you can afford. The reason I bought my truck is because I needed something that can haul ridiculous loads IN the bed and even harder to find....one of these older trucks that hasnt been beat or is a rust bucket. Ill agree with Warden though ive always been a fan of ford frames as alot my buddies have built ridiculous mud trucks and years of towing on horse farms with them.
 

stuborn nut

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yeh I realy don't know what I'm going to do, I will keep the pickup and repower it. There is a lot more to the rig than the engine, I have put alot of time into the suspension, brakes, and cab and such it is a pretty solid truck just burns alot of oil. A cummins would be great but i am confident that I could build a idi that would be reliable for along time. Either way it'll be a fun project. I've half way been looking for a 6bt for awhile now. Generally if I keep my eyes open I will stumble across something that will make up my mind for me. Been waiting far a couple years now and it hasn't showed up. Either way I was figuring on somewhere between $5k and $6k to finish.

If I were to swap in the 6bt how critical is the carge air cooler size? I got one out of a 04 dodge that it looks like it would fit but I would need to trim about 4" off the bottom to fit around my bumper and winch.
 
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