When do you throw in the towel?? 6.9 woes

[Hillbilly]

First let me say I really like my old truck. It's a 86 F350 CC, 4WD, 6.9 with a T-19. I always wanted a true four door truck after never being satisfied with regular and extened cab versions. I use this truck to pull my old landcruiser trail rig to and from rides. For the most part that's all it gets used for general hauling and towing duties. I like that it's a truck your not scared to use. I've had new, nicer trucks i've used for work and play duties, but always hated putting the first ding or dent in them while still making notes.

On to my question, the ole 6.9 is on it's last leg. It burns and leaks enough oil to drive me crazy. I've never really been pleased with it's preformance with a load. I know it's a 21 year old truck, but i'd like to revamp it alittle. After doing just alittle searching for new/rebuilt 6.9s, I'm not sure i wanna throw that kind of money at it and still stuck with the performance for that kinda dough. I guess in short i wanna do something different, 6.9 with a turbo or even a 12V Fummins swap. I plan on keeping the truck as I'm not one to part with toys till the very end(death) when do you say enough and yank the old oil burner for something newer or different? anyone got any links to new/rebuilt 6.9s? I'm still in the research mode.
Thanks in advance
here's a pic of the ole girl for reference.

 

[FordGuy100]

Well the first question to ask yourself is, how much money are you willing to spend on it? I mean if you had a budget of like $10,000, then I would say go with a cummins, but if it was more along the lines of 1-2 grand, then stick with the IDI.

A cummins swap is going to be very expensive, I mean a 12 valve cummins around here will cost along the lines of $2000-4000, then you need the adaptors, motor mounts, trans adaptor, all that good stuff, and your looking at a good $4500-8000 bill.

An IDI is going to be cheaper, but the power potential is going to be less compared to a cummins. If my motor just took a dump on me this is what I would do: First find someone around your area parting out an IDI truck with a running engine. Go over there and listen to the engine run and make sure all is good with it (ie not smoking like a freight train at idle any white or blue smoke, stuff like that). Then buy that engine, which is going to be right around $500 for one around here. Take it back and throw on some ARP head studs, and new headgaskets, make sure the heads and block are good (not cracked or warped or anything, if they are you might as well start over because the machining is going to be expensive). Then if its a 6.9 upgrade to the 7.3 rockers just for safe measure. Throw on new injectors and IP (either stock, or a DPS/Moose pump, injectors you should be good with just G codes injectors. If you buy a new stock pump, then you will be turning up the pump later on). Once you got that all done either buy a new turbo kit, or find a used one. Buy a boost and EGT gauge (pyrometer, and drill and tap a hole in the exhaust manifold for the thermocoupler (EGT probe). This will basically give you an awsome running IDI with as much or more power than a stock 12 valve, and it will be cheaper. Heres a rough cost rundown for a IDI buildup like I said....
IDI engine $500-750
ARP studs (if buying a 6.9) $350
Headgaskets $100
Rockers maybe $200-400
Injectors $350
IP $500-750
Turbo $1000-2500
Gauges $250

Total cost for the the most expensive as I mentioned.... $5450. This seems quite expensive, but its on the low side of what a cummins swap would cost, and you dont even need some of the parts if they are still good on your truck (IP and injectors, thats $1100 right there that I would take out of my equation). Plus then you dont feel all dirty about swaping in a cummins and going over to the darkside.

 

[f-two-fiddy]

You can get a remaned pump and new Injs from MWFI for under $700

 

[Hillbilly]

Well the first question to ask yourself is, how much money are you willing to spend on it? I mean if you had a budget of like $10,000, then I would say go with a cummins, but if it was more along the lines of 1-2 grand, then stick with the IDI.


A cummins swap is going to be very expensive, I mean a 12 valve cummins around here will cost along the lines of $2000-4000, then you need the adaptors, motor mounts, trans adaptor, all that good stuff, and your looking at a good $4500-8000 bill.

An IDI is going to be cheaper, but the power potential is going to be less compared to a cummins. If my motor just took a dump on me this is what I would do: First find someone around your area parting out an IDI truck with a running engine. Go over there and listen to the engine run and make sure all is good with it (ie not smoking like a freight train at idle any white or blue smoke, stuff like that). Then buy that engine, which is going to be right around $500 for one around here. Take it back and throw on some ARP head studs, and new headgaskets, make sure the heads and block are good (not cracked or warped or anything, if they are you might as well start over because the machining is going to be expensive). Then if its a 6.9 upgrade to the 7.3 rockers just for safe measure. Throw on new injectors and IP (either stock, or a DPS/Moose pump, injectors you should be good with just G codes injectors. If you buy a new stock pump, then you will be turning up the pump later on). Once you got that all done either buy a new turbo kit, or find a used one. Buy a boost and EGT gauge (pyrometer, and drill and tap a hole in the exhaust manifold for the thermocoupler (EGT probe). This will basically give you an awsome running IDI with as much or more power than a stock 12 valve, and it will be cheaper. Heres a rough cost rundown for a IDI buildup like I said....
IDI engine $500-750
ARP studs (if buying a 6.9) $350
Headgaskets $100
Rockers maybe $200-400
Injectors $350
IP $500-750
Turbo $1000-2500
Gauges $250

Total cost for the the most expensive as I mentioned.... $5450. This seems quite expensive, but its on the low side of what a cummins swap would cost, and you dont even need some of the parts if they are still good on your truck (IP and injectors, thats $1100 right there that I would take out of my equation). Plus then you dont feel all dirty about swaping in a cummins and going over to the darkside.

Definetely no 10 grand budget at one time, but i could see spending that over a set amount of time. hell for ten grand i could buy a truck with a cummins already in it, but no true factory four door trucks exist in that price range.

Around here i can find a complete, running truck for that kind of money.

around here i haven't found very many 6.9s reasonable priced. What i mean is the ones that are in that range are questionable.

How bout this, what's a turbo'd 6.9 gonna make asfar as power is concerned?
Maybe I'll let this be my deciding factor.

 

[FordGuy100]

Definetely no 10 grand budget at one time, but i could see spending that over a set amount of time. hell for ten grand i could buy a truck with a cummins already in it, but no true factory four door trucks exist in that price range.

Around here i can find a complete, running truck for that kind of money.

around here i haven't found very many 6.9s reasonable priced. What i mean is the ones that are in that range are questionable.

How bout this, what's a turbo'd 6.9 gonna make asfar as power is concerned?
Maybe I'll let this be my deciding factor.

I'm just saying, that would be a well built IDI, and it would take a beating for a while. A turbo'ed 6.9 with the pump nearly maxed out will make as much or a little less than a stock 12valve.

 

[Diesel JD]

A turbo 6.9 that's in decent shape with short enough gears and a tweaked pump makes good power that I think you'll be happy with. It really needs updated head gaskets and ideally head studs to be truly reliable with a turbo. On the cheap, you could get a shortblock 6.9 from Promar or some other remanufacturer for around 1800-2800 plus freight. Then you could get your heads worked over or spend the couple hundred extra for a long block. You can usually cobble together a used turbo kit for about $1000-1500 maybe a lot less if you're lucky. A new hypermax kit goes for around 1700. A new pump and injs is highly advisable. From what I hear DPS pumps are about on par with moose pumps and a couple bills cheaper...both move a LOT more fuel than stock. Mel does have better customer service though. At this point I'd get new Delphi BB injectors. Ken's Stage 1s may or may not increase HP but the surely increase smoke and make the spray pattern funky. This may not really hurt an old IDI and does flow more fuel than stock. Of course you need a free flowing 3" or larger exhaust and some sort of cold air intake like a Moose Tube, Ghost Tube, or Hypermax cowl induction. You definitely need a pyrometer and boost gauge and keep the pyro under 1000 for sustained operation and never ever more than 1250 even for a blip, on the hot side of the turbo. What Justin says about the Cummins swap is generally true, but I could envision a scenario where you find a wrecked Dodge 2500 with everything you need except the adapters and it could be much cheaper than that. That's what Midnight Rider did. The Cummins motor is great and the Dodge drivetrain is probably underrated, but the truck is nothing special. I bet you could find a rundown reg cab with all the right stuff for a few grand or less.

 

[Hillbilly]

Well that's why I came here to bounce ideas off you guys. I'm just gonna weigh my options and see how things work out. I just can't see having that much money tied up into another 6.9 I think i'll just keep my eye's peeled for a donor truck, wheter it be a Ford or a Dodge. It seems now days it's cheaper to get one intact, strip what you need and sell the rest, be it scrap or to others and break even or come out ahead. Around here used 6.9 and 7.3s seem to fetch a premium versus a complete truck.

 

[Diesel JD]

That's what it seems like. I'd be wary of a used 7.3 due to the cavitation worm and dropped valve problem. Ideally you find a 6.9 in an old school bus or box truck, or a wrecked well running pickup that's been totaled. You might also could rebuild your 6.9 if you have the time. If you bore it, and can do the assy. yourself you could probably get out for not much more than a grand.

 

[tonkadoctor]

When do you throw in the towel?? 6.9 woes

When it's cheaper to make payments on a new rig than to dump money into an old rig.

When it's time to decide on where to put my money I consider the private party book value which is about the "fair market value" my insurance company will cover if it's totaled.

Basicly I consider the risk for a loss and the need for the vehicle. I simply won't dump $10k into a $2k truck and hope for the best but that's how I look at things. Now I would consider dumping say $4k into a truck I paid $8k for and books out at $10k, much better risk for me.

Sorry guys but he asked

Only you can decide how to spend your money but we'll surely encourage you to $$$pend on all the toys. I vote for a twin turboed Cummins and a 13 speed double overdrive Eaton tranny

 

[Diesel JD]

I don't believe in car payments, but then again I don't have a real job yet. It would really gall me to dump my first 300-400 every month into the car or truck. That said, if you have to spend a lot of money and acquire debt, then a new vehicle is likely the better investment. But cars and trucks are depreciating assets.

 

[Hillbilly]

I vote for a twin turboed Cummins and a 13 speed double overdrive Eaton tranny

I like the way you think! , but I'm what they call cheap, tight, etc.... I bought one new truck in my life. That was back in '97. I swore 6 months later that I'd never make loan payments on another vehicle, aslong as I could afford not to. I get asked what that means all the time. It goes along with what you posted, aslong as i don't mind wrenching and that 20 plus year old truck ISN'T keeping me from getting to and from work, I'll keep wrenching on old iron. When the day comes that it/they do and I'm not able to do so, I'll be riding in something newer ifnot brand new.

We'll sure were the chips lay in the end. I might run across a screaming deal on a replacement motor, I might not. Thank goodness it's not my only toy hauler. Dare I say i've got a GM product as backup

 

[Diesel JD]

Is it your DD or not?

 

[Diesel JD]

That truck is way too cool to let go just cause of a tired motor. A SRW crew cab is fantastic with a 6.9 AND a manual tranny!

 

[Hillbilly]

Is it your DD or not?

Thank goodness no. I've got acouple beater rides I get to and fro with.

 

[Hillbilly]

That truck is way too cool to let go just cause of a tired motor. A SRW crew cab is fantastic with a 6.9 AND a manual tranny!

didn't say anything about letting go of it, just want it to haul my toy alittle quicker to the trail heads. you should have seen the ole girl when I got it. She was in sad shape. didn't run, bellhousing cracked/busted, steering box hanging off the frame rail and numerous other things. I've got her back to a fairly reliable state, just annoyed with the oil consumption and leaks. If she doesn't burn it, she drips it. I need alittle more power to pull those new wheels and tires plus my toy. I swapped the 3.55's out for some 4.10's I had on the shelf. I should have went deeper/lower, but for the price(free) couldn't pass. Ulitmately I wouldlike to be able to pull two trail rigs, appx. 4500 pounds a piece and not have to drop to 3rd, or even second like I do now.