to those who it may concern. SCM.

[Puller]

Yup, a turbo is actual a turbine-supercharger. Pro-Charger is just a cold side of a turbo but belt driven although they tend to spin 50,000 to 100,000 more rpm's then a typical turbocharger.

 

[asmith]

I want to work it in reverse. have the largest Eaton supercharger M120(iirc) bring up the boost until a larger turbo that can handle the higher air volume can take over. i haven't had the time to really put anything together since all this is a mental exercise in the meantime, but the parts to make this happen do exist. All it needs is some serious time spent building brackets and plumbing.

i know that some busses run this setup. a supercharger to get them going, then a turbo to take over. i always figured it was a waste on our trucks though.

 

[88 Ford]

Here is some proof that centrifugal units do work on diesels and still make good power. There are guys that have dynoed higher than that too. I have done a lot of research supercharging does work on diesels. Also SWS finished his and it has boost off idle and sounds awesome...

Anyway here is an Empire Procharged 6.0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjiARH4A-eg

I have also seen a roots blower in a Chevy 6.2 in a hotrod on youtube but I can't find it at the moment. Lol. If you need any links I mentioned over on FTE just ask and I will scrounge them up for you. There is more stuff than you know especially with positive displacement type superchargers on Cummins...

 

[Knuckledragger]

Yup, a turbo is actual a turbine-supercharger. Pro-Charger is just a cold side of a turbo but belt driven although they tend to spin 50,000 to 100,000 more rpm's then a typical turbocharger.

Ok, now wait a minute. You are saying that a belt driven device is going to spin faster than a turbocharger? I 'm not buying it. Even at 4:1 overdrive, the belt drive is limited to the speed of the engine crank. So, at 6000 engine RPM, the belt drive is spinning at about 24,000 RPM. That isn't near 100,000 RPM. Turbochargers are not similarly limited by a mechanical drive system.

 

[boosted power]

I think the ratio on a procharger is a lot more than 4:1...

I just looked it up on their website, it looks like most of them turn around 70,000 rpms max. So probably more like 100,000 to 50,000 LESS rpms than a turbocharger. Still that's an awful lot of rotations for something belt driven.

 

[The Warden]

i know that some busses run this setup. a supercharger to get them going, then a turbo to take over. i always figured it was a waste on our trucks though.

That was standard fare on two-stroke Detroits when a turbo was added to the engine. However, the blowers on those engines weren't really super high-output units...they weren't meant to boost engine power output so much as they were meant to scavenge the exhaust gases out of the combustion chambers and get fresh air in there. Note that non-turbo Detroits are generally referred to as being "naturally aspirated" even though the superchargers are always present on 'em...a Detroit won't run without it!

 

[Justiniandagr8]

What type of supercharger are you going to use? Roots (lobe type), Centrifugal (functions like a turbo only belt driven) or Lysholm (screw type). This would be the first question you have to answer. The second would be what kind of power are you looking to make (Really this should be first but you've already stated your going supercharger but this would help narrow down sizing)? I know you said you don't care but you still need to choose something that will run correctly and not cause problems. Once you've figured out what type of supercharger your going to use some suggestions can be made. What is your budget, this will determine what type of parts we can suggest you use.

most likey a roots type blower.... deffinatly a blower if i can get away with it.

 

[Puller]

I think the ratio on a procharger is a lot more than 4:1...

I just looked it up on their website, it looks like most of them turn around 70,000 rpms max. So probably more like 100,000 to 50,000 LESS rpms than a turbocharger. Still that's an awful lot of rotations for something belt driven.

Some Centri Supers do have a 2:1 Crank pulley with a internal gearing of 15:1 step up ratio. This gives you the ability to spin the super 30 times for every crank rotation. In a gas motor application it is more than possible to run 50,000 to 100,000 rpms more than a turbo (you had better have a good intercooling system). But I'm not talking about making 41hp per litre (7.3l at 300 hp), more in the 500 hp per litre range (1.2L at 600 hp).

I am by know means saying a Super is better than a Turbo for peak power because it quite simple cannot be if all things are equally efficient. Simple physics don't allow it as most fairly efficient ball bearing turbos require about 6HP per 100Hp produced to operate them while even the most efficient Supers require around 20 Hp per 100 Hp produced.

Here is an example of a high speed Super http://www.modified.com/tech/modp-0905-rotrex-traction-drive/viewall.html

 

[riotwarrior]

If I could draw whats in my head well...never mind that..

How bout twin centrifugal chargers one on each side of the front of the engine, two turbos one on each side at back or underneath truck...and one 871 roots blower ...the two centrifugal and two turbos all plumbed into the top of the 871 hell ya....seriously show quality...

One thing you did not mentions with all this ***** flowing through your thread....whats yer budget?

 

[Wyreth]

Ok, now wait a minute. You are saying that a belt driven device is going to spin faster than a turbocharger? I 'm not buying it. Even at 4:1 overdrive, the belt drive is limited to the speed of the engine crank. So, at 6000 engine RPM, the belt drive is spinning at about 24,000 RPM. That isn't near 100,000 RPM. Turbochargers are not similarly limited by a mechanical drive system.

You're forgetting the gear/belt/planetary drive that's in between the pulley and the impeller. Yea, the pulley is only 4:1, but the drive section is another 4-6:1 on top of that.

Also, NO a centrifugal supercharger does not spin as fast as a turbo. It doesn't need to, they have orders of magnitude more torque available to spin their impellers. So they run order of magnitude larger impellers to match.

 

[Justiniandagr8]

If I could draw whats in my head well...never mind that..

How bout twin centrifugal chargers one on each side of the front of the engine, two turbos one on each side at back or underneath truck...and one 871 roots blower ...the two centrifugal and two turbos all plumbed into the top of the 871 hell ya....seriously show quality...

One thing you did not mentions with all this ***** flowing through your thread....whats yer budget?

not enough...lol. but i have time and i can make all the custom pieces i need here at the shop no need to spend money on ordering special crap. so my only real expense would b the sc itself. and agin OLDSKOOL... no turbo

 

[Puller]

You're forgetting the gear/belt/planetary drive that's in between the pulley and the impeller. Yea, the pulley is only 4:1, but the drive section is another 4-6:1 on top of that.

Also, NO a centrifugal supercharger does not spin as fast as a turbo. It doesn't need to, they have orders of magnitude more torque available to spin their impellers. So they run order of magnitude larger impellers to match.

You may want to search Rotrex superchargers as they certainly do spin in the 180,000 to 240,000 rpm range (depending on the pulley set-up and engine rpm), I posted a link to them which is a good read (which is well above any turbo). I have also data logged these Rotrex superchargers on the dyno and hundreds of 1\8th mile runs as well as turbos. This is how we know if we need to make a housing change or completely change the snail we're using or in some cases trouble shoot. There are so many new technologies out there in the boosted world its crazy. Our turbo's on these trucks are antique's compared to what is available.

 

[88 Ford]

Here are a few threads that I was talking about over at FTE...

http://www.competitiondiesel.com/forums/showthread.php?t=110216&highlight=supercharger
http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/98-5-02-performance-parts-discussion/386520-supercharged.html
http://powerstrokenation.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67382
http://powerstrokenation.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60113&highlight=pro+charger

 

[riotwarrior]

not enough...lol. but i have time and i can make all the custom pieces i need here at the shop no need to spend money on ordering special crap. so my only real expense would b the sc itself. and agin OLDSKOOL... no turbo

Gee **** ...old school is a turbo and super....ever see a 671 green leaker? screaming jimmy....some if not lots had a NICE fat blower on the side of the block and a turbo feeding into that....I mean seriously your talking SHOW...well three SC and two Turbo's....hell man if that aint showy....dunno what is.

Just get a honkin big 6 or 871 blower then n fab up a custom intake and mount the blower assembly hook up a nice Gilmer drive with say 3" belt and voila...show!

 

[88 Ford]

Justiniandagr8, were you able to read any of those threads? What do you think about um??