T-19 vs. ZF 5 speed?

[Huntersbo]

I am looking at a 7.3 L diesel for my 4x4 scout. I will buy a junk yard engine and tranny and do not want to break my tranny if I turbo the motor. WHat is thought bout these two trannys. I think 4 speeds is enough but If the ZF is stronger which I don't think then mabe I should run one.

thanks...

 

[The Warden]

The T-19 is stronger (being made out of cast iron and not aluminum like the ZF), but IMHO the difference is close enough that I wouldn't let that influence me. To me, the more gears a diesel has, the better. I swapped a T-19 for a ZF5 in my truck a year ago, and it was like night and day. OTOH, my truck is mostly a freeway runner, so I really wanted the overdrive gear.

So, if $$ allows, I would go with the ZF5 unless this is going to be an off-road rig only...if it's going to be used strictly off-road, then the T-19 may be the way to go just for brute strength's sake.

And, to add a shameless plug my T-19 and some related parts are for sale, if you decide to go that route...and I should be going down to L.A. sometime in the next month or two...

 

[Huntersbo]

I hear alot about poeple breaking trannies with diesels. What is that at about 700 ft/lbs of torque? A freind told me that the NP 435 and the T-18 and ZF 5 speed are good for about 550 ft/lbs of toruqe and once you hit the 600 ft/lbs range you need a T-19 or a C6. What do you do when you hit 800 or 1000+? custom input and out put shafts? I am not looking at that rout but I do not want to bust a tranny because I bought the wrong one. I realize that the dana 44 will not hold up long; I think that th e differenchial will and the axils and knuckles will break. As for the rear I might consider a ford 10.25" instead of the 9" and mabe a dana 60 up front. Will a NP 205 boltup to a ZF adn T-19.

I will try to find some drive train faqs.

 

[towcat]

I hear alot about poeple breaking trannies with diesels. What is that at about 700 ft/lbs of torque? A freind told me that the NP 435 and the T-18 and ZF 5 speed are good for about 550 ft/lbs of toruqe and once you hit the 600 ft/lbs range you need a T-19 or a C6. What do you do when you hit 800 or 1000+? custom input and out put shafts? I am not looking at that rout but I do not want to bust a tranny because I bought the wrong one. I realize that the dana 44 will not hold up long; I think that th e differenchial will and the axils and knuckles will break. As for the rear I might consider a ford 10.25" instead of the 9" and mabe a dana 60 up front. Will a NP 205 boltup to a ZF adn T-19.

I will try to find some drive train faqs.

i've been playing with these trucks for years and have yet to see one trans scatter due to high torque. seen plenty of cracked cases due to clutch assy issues though. fortunately most of these issues are repairable.
besides, there's going to be plenty of other things going south well before your trans in an issue if your plans are to dump high HP into it. Also, the rollers don't lie unlike many mfg claims. Show me printed proof that our IDI's put out that kind of numbers. Hint....many don't.

 

[Huntersbo]

I just know of the 338 ft/lbs of torque at 1500 and 180 hp at 3000 rpm stock. I have heard of a man named Ken who distributes hot pumps for $525 to spit out more fuel along with turbos. I am more intersted in tuning for seat of the pants and good around runner. I do not care about hp- just good torque from idle to 2800 rpm and I do not expect to go past 2500 rpm or 70 mph much.
I think that will just run a T-19 then as this will be mainly a cruiser and 4x4.

http://www.dps-performance.com/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=6&sid=05dfb0accf1a0a1acacb617f75d03309

 

[Black dawg]

you wont break either from torque. the zf doesnt hold up well to bangin gears, the t19 seems to hold up to this treatment.

 

[Huntersbo]

I think that rebuild kits for T-19s are lower dollar too. I have seen about $150 at jeff's Bronco graveyard

 

[Meta6981]

It will be hard to reach 70 Mph with the T-19. These things scream at 55 mph.

 

[sle2115]

It will be hard to reach 70 Mph with the T-19. These things scream at 55 mph.

Huh! I have a T19 with 4.10 gears with realatively stock height tires (less than an inch taller) and I just hit 70 MPH on my way to get lawnmower gas!!! I was turning about 3100 RPM, but it is only 4 miles (less than one at 70) and it was going to rain, what's a guy to do!!!

Gearing will play a large role in speed and RPM, not to mention how hard you can "shock" the driveline, in other words, after switching from the 3.55 to the 4.10's, I can get much more power to the ground much faster, but at the sacrafice of MPH and mileage.

 

[Meta6981]

I stand corrected... THe t-19ed truck now zf5 i have been in screamed at freeway speeds.

 

[sle2115]

Nah, I think you just need to define "screamed"! I don't think I would want to run mine 3000 RPM's long term and probably for the weight of the rotating assembly, that is screaming. My last gasser (small block Chevy, 510 lift, 315 duration cam etc.) didn't start to breath hard until 4800 RPM's, shifted at 5400 when on the gas, and redlined at 6800, so 3000 seems like nothing to me, yet for these trucks you are right, 70 MPH is probably pushing it, especially long term. I was in a hurry and the drive was short. Mine will run just under the speedo max (85 MPH) when it starts to hit the governor, uh-hum, or so I have been told!!!

 

[towcat]

i am one who is guilty of driving off the governor. key thing is if the truck is running at GVW or GCVWR, 3k rpm is not stressing the motor. No load on the motor and screaming it, now that is a nerve wracking ordeal.

 

[Cat_Rebel]

As for the rear I might consider a ford 10.25" instead of the 9" and mabe a dana 60 up front. Will a NP 205 boltup to a ZF adn T-19.

I don't see why a well built 9" wouldn't howl up. They use the in some of these Diesel powered drag trucks. As far as I know the orange Bronco with the 3.9L Cummins is making around 400hp & is running a 9" on the rear. I could be wrong but that what I think I remember reading.