T-19/ZF-5 Flywheel

[Old Goat]

There are a thousand threads on clutches, Flywheels etc....

I need to swap out the clutch on my 86 F-250 6.9.
I ordered a Luk Clutch assy. from Parts Geek last night.

I did a bunch of searching for what size is in my 6.9. Seems
like a 11 inch, but can go up to a 12 inch which I ordered.

I have a Flywheel out in the shop I got with a 87 6.9 that had a ZF-5 spd.
I have read you can and you cannot use it with a 6.9, though this one came
off a 6.9,
I think the controversy is mostly with the 7.3 and ZF-5, something not balanced correctly? Or maybe that is mostly with the factory turbo IDI?

I want to have a machine shop turn the FW and have it ready so I can just R&R
it and complete the job quicker.

I have been reading a searching for a 2 post lift, sure could use it now.


Goat

 

[StephenZ]

Are you asking the question of “will my ZF5 clutch plate/flywheel fit in place of the T-19 flywheel and clutch plate? If so I’d say yes. Only difference I think is the bolt pattern on the flywheels. Ones a 6 bolt and ones an 8 bolt if I remember correctly.

I’ll have to check the T-19 I got sitting at the house later this evening or tomorrow morning to verify. I have 3 - 5spds on the trucks we’ve been rebuilding the last few months. And a T-19 on the 351- 1978 f350 we built. If I can pull the tranny away from the engine and check I’ll definitely let you know.

I just took my luk clutch assembly off my 6.9 and put on a 7.3 I just finished rebuilding and it works. So I don’t think you’ll have an issue. Speaking out of experience within the last 3-5 days actually.

 

[Jesus Freak]

Im pretty sure he's right. The balancing bit has to do with the turbo 7.3.

 

[IDIBRONCO]

The balancing is the same for all 6.9s unless someone knows something that I don't. There is a small difference between the 6.9 and the 7.3, but I was running a Luk SMF for a 7.3 on a 6.9 for several years without issues or excessive vibrations. The input shaft for a ZF5 is a larger diameter that the one on a T19. That's your difference. All of the IDI flywheels and flexplates will bolt onto any other IDI so that's a non issue.

 

[Old Goat]

Thank You for all the feed back guys appreciate it.
I dug out the FW in my pile of treasures out in the shop.
It`s in pretty good condition, teeth are almost perfect, and
the face of it is pretty clean, no burn marks etc. Almost
looks like it could just throw it and call it good.... but Iam
not.
Need to find a machine shop in town, the one bug one that has been here for ever closed down couple years ago.
Lots of Hot Rod shops and guys that do custom work should
know where to take it.

FW Bolts should be good, just wire wheel and add new red Loc-Tite.

I did order this from Russ Repair to maybe help with the bleeding of the Slave Cylinder. https://russrepair.com/clutch-line-kit/

Last time I replaced the MC and Slave, I let the MC gravity bleed, and the Slave, i cut a water bottle in 1/2, added Brake fluid, and stuck the end of the slave in it.
Pushed the rod in, let it bubble out, release etc,,, till no more bubbles. Put strap back on, connected the Clutch line and seemed to (as I remember) work good.

Too bad we can`t source the Slave straps, 20K miles after this present clutch was installed, the throw out bearing started to come apart. replaced it, but getting the Slave back on w/o the strap is a....

I saved a thread where a guy explained how to reattach it a easy way, I`ll look around to see if I can find it.

Goat

 

[FrozenMerc]

There is a difference between late and early flywheels. The early flywheels were one piece units, the later flywheels were two piece, I.E. there was a spacer between the flywheel and end of crank that pushed the flywheel rearwards due to the Ford transmission adaptor. The early 6.9's had this spacer cast into the flywheel blank. I am not sure when the change was made, if it came with the 7.3 or more likely that IH / Ford changed flywheel suppliers for a lower cost option at some point. My '85 6.9 had the one piece flywheel, the '88 (allegedly...) 7.3 I got out of a junk yard was a 2 piece.

That said, the 12" and 11" clutches are listed for all 6.9 motors in the mid 80's. The 11" was also used by the gas motors, but the 12" is listed a diesel only option. I wonder if the 12" isn't intended for medium duty applications, F450, F550, etc. I just replaced the clutch on my '85 F350, and it used the 11", and brought the 12" back to O'Reallys.

 

[IDIBRONCO]

The early flywheels were one piece units, the later flywheels were two piece, I.E. there was a spacer between the flywheel and end of crank that pushed the flywheel rewards due to the Ford transmission adaptor. The early 6.9's had this spacer cast into the flywheel blank. I am not sure when the change was made, if it came with the 7.3 or more likely that IH / Ford changed flywheel suppliers for a lower cost option at some point. My '85 6.9 had the one piece flywheel, the '88 (allegedly...) 7.3 I got out of a junk yard was a 2 piece.

Yes and no. The early flywheels that were used with the 4 speeds were one solid piece. That later ones that were used with the ZF5s technically were two pieces, but were used together as one piece. That's the dual mass flywheels. The two pieces can't be used individually so they are counted as one. There's no spacers used on the manual transmission flywheels. The only transmission that used a spacer is some of the later E4ODs.
Old Goat, when you take your DMF to be surfaced, you take the two pieces apart and they just surface the solid part that the clutch rides on and the pressure plate bolts to. There's 6 (IIRC) bolts that you remove to separate the two pieces. They will be the only bolts that you can see when you have the flywheel sitting on a bench, etc. And I'm not talking about the bolts that hold the flywheel to the crankshaft.

 

[Old Goat]

My spare FW is a solid one, the 87 6.9 it came off of had a ZF-5. Must have been up graded, or maybe the 87 didn`t have a Dual Mass till later on...IDK
The FW in my 86 is a solid FW, and I have the T-19.

Headed to town with the FW, looks like no one down here has the lathe to turn one. The local machine shop that has been here forever, closed down, and the Transmission shop that had one, the guy decided to retire.

The one shop I did stop at to ask about turning one, told me no one does it around here and probably have to go to Carson City. 20 + miles north of here.
He said he did buy the FW machine from the trans shop when he sold off stuff. Has not been wired in because cannot find any electricians that want to show up. Seems to be that way in all the trades, no one wants to work, and or are not qualified for the job and want Journey mans wages.

Gave him a name of a local electrician that has been in business here for 30 years, and did a job for me when we up graded the wiring at the shop and house. Great guy, did it all on a hand shake. So should get him up and running.

I now have 400amp power at the shop, so when any of you come by in your new "Electric Trucks", I can charge you up... I`ll have the Binford Charging station, so plug and play...

I ordered the Clutch from Parts Geek on the 8th at 11:15pm and it was on the front porch yesterday afternoon, on the 10th. Fast shipping.

The clutch I ordered is Luk 12" part# 07-065

I can see the hand writing on the wall, in time we won`t be able to find any one any where to turn a FW, as now 99.999% of all vehicles are Automatics For our shiftless society.


Goat

 

[Big Bart]

The world of repair has changed dramatically. Machine shops are getting scarce.

Part of the challenge is many parts now just get tossed for new.

Back in the day of bullnose trucks no one suggested tossing the brake rotors or drums. Rather “we will machine them”. So a machine shop got the business or the shop bought the Amco lathe and did it themselves. I have not turned a drum or rotor in 20 years. I toss for new.

Friends dads used to rebuild engines in their garage, I am only dad around my area who actually knows how to. Most folks now buy a crate rebuild or crate new replacement. Thus cutting the local machine shop out of all that machining.

State, counties, and cities have also made it hard for machine shops to do things like sending oil sludge down the drain, painting, or sand blasting.

Machining equipment is all computerized and very expensive. As old equipment dies new equipment is not in the budget. Many do not have cad cam or machining computer experience so finding operators is getting hard.

Then parents all want their kids to be college grads and get a white collar desk job. Not be a blue collar worker getting their hands dirty. So finding talented tradesmen who can read, retain, run a computer controlled machine, and do math to .0001” are getting hard to find.

But watch if you are someone with those skills in 10 years they will be paying handsomely due to supply and demand. India learned that hard lesson a couple decades ago.

 

[Jesus Freak]

Boy howdy, if I had a drum lathe! It is convenient to buy new but what about custom offsets on steel wheels? Lathing the welding bead and moving the rims center. Man! I'd love to have some old shop equipment.

 

[Jesus Freak]

I can see the hand writing on the wall, in time we won`t be able to find any one any where to turn a FW, as now 99.999% of all vehicles are Automatics For our shiftless society.


Goat

I tell you what's crazy, I sell riding lawn mowers on Craigslist (that's not too crazy) and I've sold mowers to 40+ yr old men who have never operated a "clutch" or "choke lever" and I literally have to train them a like an elementary school kid on how to make it go and cut. My 14 yr old son has taught grown men how to operate a riding mower a couple times when I wasn't home for the sale. What's really funny is introduceing someone to a hydrostat! They usually pop a wheelie and scare themselves, while I try not to laugh.

 

[IDIBRONCO]

I've sold mowers to 40+ yr old men who have never operated a "clutch" or "choke lever"

Speaking of that, when I was working on these engines for a living, for a few years we shared the sop with a used car lot that the owner also owned. This would have been in about 96/97. There was a guy who was about 3 years younger than me who was working for the car lot as a mechanic. He has graduated from tech school and had been out for 6 months or so. The car lot took a 1961 Ford truck (F150? I don't remember) in on trade. He was the one who got to go through it to see what was wrong before it went on the lot. He was all flustered because he was going to have to tear into the steering column because the dimmer switch was so stuck that it didn't work. He was talking about it to me so I told him that wasn't the dimmer switch. I had to explain to him that it was a button on the floor next to the kick panel and I wasn't even looking at the truck. His first car had been a 1982 Chevy car of some sort and he'd never seen a dimmer switch there before. His mind was completely blown. At least it worked when he tried it.

 

[franklin2]

I thought flywheels were ground on a grinding machine?

And I guess you guys know a flywheel for a T19 will not work with a ZF? There was a lot of discussion in the previous posts and it was a little confusing, you may have mentioned that already. You may have been talking about engine/flywheel compatibility and not transmission/flywheel compatibility.

 

[IDIBRONCO]

I mentioned engine/flywheel and clutch disc/transmission compatibility. I didn't mention flywheel/transmission compatibility because I don't know enough about it to say for sure. I didn't know that the flywheels aren't interchangable between the transmissions. Thanks.

 

[Jesus Freak]

Speaking of that, when I was working on these engines for a living, for a few years we shared the sop with a used car lot that the owner also owned. This would have been in about 96/97. There was a guy who was about 3 years younger than me who was working for the car lot as a mechanic. He has graduated from tech school and had been out for 6 months or so. The car lot took a 1961 Ford truck (F150? I don't remember) in on trade. He was the one who got to go through it to see what was wrong before it went on the lot. He was all flustered because he was going to have to tear into the steering column because the dimmer switch was so stuck that it didn't work. He was talking about it to me so I told him that wasn't the dimmer switch. I had to explain to him that it was a button on the floor next to the kick panel and I wasn't even looking at the truck. His first car had been a 1982 Chevy car of some sort and he'd never seen a dimmer switch there before. His mind was completely blown. At least it worked when he tried it.

I've had that discussion too.