Saginaw Pump

[rhkcommander]

I'm embarking on a quest to add a saginaw pump to my truck after the stock pump puked its guts all over my driveway... Maybe we can make this a tech article if not. I'm sure I will have some questions too

The Saginaw 6244 pump that is adapted to C-2 mounting is not available anymore - it was a direct drop in that used an adapter to convert the 4-bolt saginaw to the 3-bolt C-2 pump mounts.

Or these
http://www.borgeson.com/xcart/catal...pgrade_Kits_for_Fords-orderby_0-p-1-c-86.html

http://www.ebay.com/itm/429-460-FOR...BRACKET-KIT-BBF-BILLET-ALUMINUM-/121173865082

PSC makes an adapter (PSC-MB03K) to convert the saginaw to C-1 and C-2 pump styles
http://www.pscmotorsports.com/ford-5-0-saginaw-pump-adapter-bracket.html
Apparently you may have to grind the old mount to make it all fit together...

Or you can get real creative and weld one up like oldblue05
http://www.oilburners.net/forums/showthread.php?50330-Saginaw-powersteering-pump-upgrade


I tried a few local yards and had zero luck with finding any van-style brackets that originally held saginaws but would drop in. I found one that could work with a lot of spacers but I thought toying around with that sounds like a nightmare. I bought it anyway so I would have a core and some metal to cut and weld on if necessary. I also needed the pulley and this one is a 2-belt.

I bought a NAPA refurb canned ham style saginaw. Brought it home and held it up to my original power steering bracket to see if I could find a way to make it work. The saginaw is much narrower than the C-2 was, and the "right side" is raised compared to the "left side" (if the pulley is the front and reservoir cap is the top)... So I opted to make the right side work with the C-2 pump mounting bracket.

Tools Used:

• Grinder stand w/ wire wheel
• dremel with cut off wheels and grinder
• sharpee & paper (for marking where to drill and grind)
• drill & drill bits

The bracket is aluminum, easy to work on but it will gum up tools. The C-2 mounts only use 3 bolts, the saginaw can use up to 4. You can line up the bottom right bolt hole on the saginaw with the bottom right hole on the bracket, and right above the top right bolt hole is a recess in the aluminum pump bracket. Its almost like it was meant to be. So i took some paper and marked the two holes and then held them against the bracket and transferred the spot for the second hole. Drilled it with small bits and worked my way up to 3/8", making sure the alignment was good - it came out perfect!

After that I lined up the two holes and found out where things would get in the way. I had to grind a good bit off the top of the bracket to get it to clear, and a little bit on one side. Nothing 10 minutes of grinding and repolishing with the wire wheel cant handle. I also trimmed a little off of the saginaw pump, mostly the casting junk. Looking back now I may not have needed to grind the bracket as much as I did because I might need to use spacers between the bracket and pump - oops. The reason I want to keep the stock bracket is it will be universal with C-2 or saginaw, and it seems cheaper and easier than fabbing a full-custom one / waiting for adapters or brackets in the mail.

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In the morning I am planning on making a small steel adapter to hook up the other two bolt holes to the mount, maybe tapping it so it can bolt together but I havent decided yet how I want to do it. I may cut the bracket off the old saginaw i got at the junk yard. Gotta pull the pulley off, I figure to reinstall it on the new one I can just find a bolt that threads into the shaft and use a nut with washers to drive it on

I've heard conflicting information regarding the high pressure line - someone said theirs fit just fine and others have said I will need the ford van one. Everyone has said it will fit the stock ford steering gear though.

Pictures to come in the morning

 

[rhkcommander]

Another popular thread
Here you can see the hole I drilled and I also grounded upwards just a bit to make room for the bolt to sit more evenly. I also ground away at the top.

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Here it is on the saginaw, 2 bolts out of 4. Most installs I see are using 3 though.

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This bracket was from the junkyard, it was the closest to the stock mount. The next picture shows that the two bolt holes line up with the ford unit, but spacing is much different so you would need to use different bolts and spacers. Also the pump would be sitting at about 10 o'clock, I wanted more vertical

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Instead, I cut off the right-side half and plan to use the extra square nut as a tensioner since the stock one will be blocked by the pulley. I will probably add some welds to reinforce it, looks like it is 5/8" socket. I also cut off the left side mount, this had a spacer that makes up for the offset face on the saginaw. I then drilled another hole so that I could attach it to the bottom mounting bracket hole. You will want to thread this hole on the bracket so you can run a screw in from behind. With the pulley on a bolt head could potentially get in the way. I suggest a 1/2-13 tap, I did 1/2-20 but that is much harder to find so I had to use a set screw - no side to side clamping but it should still be enough strength until I can special order a 1/2-20 3/4" bolt online

It's also a good time to re-thread the tensioner bolt hole, mine was wore out. I cleaned it up and used (I believe) a 7/16-coarse tap. All better

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That should be plenty of strength still, and I can still tension the belt up with a wrench. Reusing this bracket gave me more space so less grinding would have been needed.

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The high pressure line uses the same thread size on both the c-2 and saginaw, the saginaw had a flared end whereas the ford used some sort of crimp connector - we will see if it interferes. Might have to nip some of the end off.

All that is left to do is throw it on the truck and finish pushing the pulley back on until the belt is lined up nicely

 

[Rot Box]

Looking forward to pics I put a seal kit in my stock pump yesterday. Given the reputation I'd rather have the saginaw..

 

[rhkcommander]

Pulling the pulley and putting it back on:

Use a gear puller to get the old pulley off. I had to put a bolt on the shaft because I couldn't get it to reach otherwise. No harm no foul, it popped right off after a bit. To speed it up I threw it on a vice, used a socket wrench on the puller and a small pry bar on the body of the puller. Easy as pie.

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More pictures of reinstall in the morning

 

[79jasper]

I'm not 100%. But the Idi and psd accessory mounting looks fairly similar.
So for serpentine guys, may look into this. http://powerstrokenation.com/forums/showthread.php?t=196817


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[rhkcommander]

Got it on, works BEAUTIFULLY!

Gotta make the tension bolt slot on the other bracket a little longer, this pulley is larger than the c-2 was so its tighter!

The high pressure line from the c-2 was too large to fit into the e-250 saginaw pump. So i took the nut off both pumps and compared. I knew the input thread size was the same but the bodies were slightly different. I found that i could make the saginaw pump nut -port match the c-2 with drilling to fit my orig. high pressure line. So i found a drill bit that fit the c-2 tightly, and the used it on the saginaws until it matched. Just clamped it on vice and carefully hand drilled it. The ford line has an oring on it but the line was a larger diameter so boring it was all that was needed. Washed the shavings off and reinstalled. Just had to bend the high pressure line a bit and removed some fender insulation for extra space. It was all soaked in oil anyway. The drill bit size was slightly bigger than 3/8", but the bit was unreadable sorry. The c-2 nut port was 15/16" while saginaw used 1". The saginaw core from junkyard had a port with an insert for a flanged line, completely unusable here.

After hooking it up and installing and filling it i jacked the front end up and started. It made so much pressure that it quickly sprung a leak in the low pressure side! Definitely need to replace it but it happened right next to the cooler coils so i lopped it off and reattached.

After that i started again and purged the lines, very quiet squeeling until i got it bled then silence! NO MORE SQUEAKING WHEN TURNING! Lowered front, same results.

Best part, its all still original so if i ever need a pump i can bolt any saginaw or c-2 in with a quick change.

Now i just need hydroboost lol.

Steering is much improved and dead silent. Very happy and cost wasnt much more than a crappy c-2

 

[riotwarrior]

all this...no final pictures installed... W T F already??

I'm thinking that this will be much more difficult with the serpentine bracket!..maybe not but I think so..

 

[rhkcommander]

Typed that reply on my phone lol, i will get pictures up this afternoon!

Serpentine doesnt look much more difficult. The only thing i would be worried about is pulley shaft length, the 6244 bolt in model looks longer. Id be willing to try if anyone had a spare

The square nut was 5/8" and indeed worked nicely for tensioning. Might use the bolt hole to ziptie the ground or plumbing up.

 

[riotwarrior]

Typed that reply on my phone lol, i will get pictures up this afternoon!

Serpentine doesnt look much more difficult. The only thing i would be worried about is pulley shaft length, the 6244 bolt in model looks longer. Id be willing to try if anyone had a spare

What the hell is a 6244 bolt in model ROFL...

There are many different input shaft configurations on saginaws FYI and lengths and so forth...varies by application.

I"ve got a couple different ones here to play with....even one round can remote reservoir model that may indeed be the HOT TICKET for those wanting more capacity and a saginaw...

Nice having a collection of parts to play with

 

[rhkcommander]

Cardone 20-6244 is a bolt-in saginaw but it looks like they stopped making them a few years ago.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/ford/707043-cardone-20-6244-ps-pump.html

 

[racin460]

NPD has them online for $57.95

 

[rhkcommander]

Here are the barbs on the main pump bodies - left is saginaw and right c-2. This barb was off of the core I got from the Junkyard off a '80 chevy van according to what he wrote down. Used a regular flared end. The new napa reman pump came with a barb that matched the c-2 insides except for the inner hole where the high pressure line goes in was smaller and wouldn't take the hose.

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I didn't think to take a picture of what my high pressure line looked like so I drew up a crappy image giving you the general idea . Not to scale or accurate thread pitch (lol really ). The line seats inside of the port and the oring seals it. After finding a drill bit that fit tightly into the c-2 port I took it over to the saginaw and drilled out the excess until I hit the bottom smaller hole. Felt like aluminum, didn't care to grab a magnet to verify but it was easy. Clean all the metal shavings off and test fit onto the high pressure line. Fit like a glove so after some bending on the high pressure line to make its bends closer to two 45° angles rather than two 90°s, installed it and no leaks! . Jacked the front end up, filled the reservoir, started the engine and turned the wheels left right left right left right about a dozen times to bleed them. Checked reservoir and topped off as needed, then lowered truck down and tried again. MUCH MORE STEERING POWER AND NO SQUEAKS

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And there you have it. Now if I ever need to I can swap in another saginaw or c-2, it will accept both. Just have to transfer the port and small brackets I made if using another saginaw. C-2 is just a direct swap

 

[LCAM-01XA]

Few notes that may be interesting to others doing this job:

1) if you can't find an Econoline Saginaw bracket, you can use one off a big '70s Lincoln, they are aluminum and require minor grinding to make everything line up but it's a piece of cake. Depending on pump being used (in particular reservoir shape and mostly location of return ports) that bracket may be the better choice, unless you decide to cut off the rear leg of the Econoline bracket if it interferes with a return line, which I personally wouldn't recommend.

2) the pressure port fittings are steel. They drilled easy because the OP had a good sharp bit at his disposal. You can drill them like he did, or you can cut and weld, either way works.

3) flare fitting was found in '70s and early '80s GM vehicles, also a '70s Lincoln pump will have a flare fitting (likely the same one). The o-ring fitting that comes in an Econoline pump is the exact same thing as the one found in late-'80s and newer GM trucks.

4) the o-ring pressure line setup the OP is using is only found on '89s and older trucks. '90 and newer have it redesigned to where the O-ring is no longer between the line and the fitting, but rather it's internal between the line and its nut, then the nut seals to the fitting via a one-time-use teflon seal. I'm yet to find any advantage to the newer setup, but if you have one of them then drilling the fitting won't work. You can however use the older style hoses, and then the drill trick should work. Also Econoline steering box is the same as the truck one, meaning you can just buy an Econoline pressure hose and not have to mod the fittings at all (which obviously won't work on a hydroboosted truck).

 

[rhkcommander]

Good information there, thank you!

4) Econoline steering box is the same as the truck one, meaning you can just buy an Econoline pressure hose and not have to mod the fittings at all (which obviously won't work on a hydroboosted truck).

I tried that locally, everyone sourced part number 71202 for the hose. Didn't fit the pump, pump instructions included a picture of the barb and roughly said: 'port may differ than prior pumps'. I will see if I can find that slip and scan it.

The 71202 hose at 3 different stores had the end like in this guys' picture, and was unable to fit http://www.bangshift.com/forum/forum/bangshift/tech-section/27981-saginaw-power-steering-hose-help

 

[LCAM-01XA]

I tried that locally, everyone sourced part number 71202 for the hose. Didn't fit the pump, pump instructions included a picture of the barb and roughly said: 'port may differ than prior pumps'. I will see if I can find that slip and scan it.

The 71202 hose at 3 different stores had the end like in this guys' picture, and was unable to fit http://www.bangshift.com/forum/forum/bangshift/tech-section/27981-saginaw-power-steering-hose-help

Like this end?

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That is actually the correct end for a Sag fitting, IIRC even in Econoline application it looks that way. I got the exact same thing on my GM hose, and the GM and Econoline fittings are identical (I'm running a Lincoln pump with Econoline fitting and GM hose, it's a 100% bolt-on and leak-free setup) so idk why it wouldn't fit your new Econoline pump, my guess is someone goofed at the rebuilder and gave it the wrong fitting? What was the exact fitment issue you experienced, was the line with the o-ring not slipping into the fitting or was the line nut not threading in right? Take a picture of that instructions sheet with your camera and post it up if you can, I wanna see what they did there...