Replaced Lift pump with Electric and now White smoke???

[nicksorenson]

This forum is great. I'm super appreciative of the great advice I've received so far with my new IDI Turbo.

I have replaced all the injector o-rings, lines, etc to attempt to fix rough starts with no avail. The truck sits for 5 minutes after it's up to temp and misses and smokes when started again. I have no idea what it could be I'm out of ideas?

Also, I replaced the lift pump today with an electric one from NAPA that gives 3.8-5.7psi. It's quiet and seems to work fine. But I've got white/blue smoke now even after it's warmed up. It's not a huge fog but it seems like before there wasn't as much white smoke as there is now.

I've heard the lift pump can effect injection timing, is this right?

Here are my questions:
-Why could the truck still be starting rough after sitting 5 minutes even after it's warmed up ?
-Could my lift pump change the injection timing ?
-The timing marks on my pump are lined up with the gear cover. Does it need to be advanced? Advanced is moving the line on the pump toward the passenger side right?


Thanks!!!
Nick

 

[GenLightening]

If the timing was set with the old pump, and it wasn't putting out enough pressure, then yes it could affect the timing. Pretty sure you're correct on the timing adjustment. Someone with more knowledge will chime in soon.

I'm still learning all this, my conversion is set to start in Nov. can't wait to see what I'm getting into!

 

[nicksorenson]

Any ideas on my hard starts? It did the same with my mechanical lift pump. No change there. It starts hard cold or even warmed up (that is if I let it sit for about 3-5 minutes or so). But once it runs a minute or two it smooths right out.

 

[GenLightening]

You may still have air getting into the lines. Try letting the pump run for a minute before starting and see if it starts better.

 

[Jake S.]

If you have air entering the system it usually starts up then dies and then starts hard. I put a piece of clear hose from the filter return to injector so I can see if it drains when sitting (ie bad return lines), or if I have a air leak in the lines that goes to the tank. You might want to have your injectors tested to see if some are not closing and letting air in the system there.

 

[Agnem]

My bet is you still have an air intrusion problem. Until that is fixed, all bets are off.

 

[nicksorenson]

I had lots of air getting in. Now I have clear line going everywhere under the hood. The only thing not clear is the hard line from the filter to the Injection Pump and from the injection pump to the injectors. I even ran the engine out of a diesel can with fuel coming and returning to the can to eliminate any air leaks from the tank. I saw NO bubbles coming from the supply or return and none in any of the return lines from the injectors or to the filter. It still was hard starting after sitting even a few minutes. The truck was up to temp. It was on the cool side (this thing runs at the 'N' on normal and cooler). But my guess is that glow plugs wouldn't be an issue when it's up to this temp in the engine. But I don't know that.

Any ideas?? I'm stumped. I'm thinking of just bringing it in. That's always my last resort. But I can't think of anything else to try. I guess I could advance the pump a little. Could that help?

 

[nicksorenson]

Update---Less Smoke today.

Today I started it and I notice it smokes a lot less. Also, I noticed at the cold start high idle it hardly smokes at all. The initial startup is pretty smoky but thats normal in a diesel (I've got 3 that all do it!).

But I still get missing when I first start this thing. I think I've eliminated air. I don't see any in the return line to the filter or any of the other clear lines (all lines under the hood are clear-even the line from my electric fuel pump to the hardline that goes to the filter. No Bubbles.

I'd guess GPs but it does it even when it's up to temp. Surely the IDI doesn't need GPs when the engine is up to temp??? My 6.2GM (Detroit) barely has to click over once when it's warm and it purs like a kitten. A loud kitten with no mufflers but it runs smooth as can be. This Ford is rough upon start up for 30 seconds to a minute after only 5 minutes of being off. Surely this isn't normal when it's up to temp is it???

 

[Dirtleg]

If you are only having hard starts after it's warmed up it could be a worn out IP. Mine eventually wore to the point where it was getting hard to start cold. I don't want to jump to conclusions here but if you are certain your air in the lines problem is solved and it's blowing a significant amount of white smoke that would be my guess. A weak IP will affect the timing. More I would think than the electric fuel pump. Also, the hard (near impossible)warm starts and excessive white smoke describe my symptoms prior to changing my IP exactly. Rough running has most often been suggested to be injectors.

These suggestions only apply if indeed you have the air in the lines issue solved.

On a positive note, with a new IP I don't have hardly any smoke at all. It's almost impossible to notice. Good luck and hope you solve this soon.

 

[nicksorenson]

It seems like the smoke is a little better. It starts about the same anytime I start it. It seems to need some throttle to get the missing to clear up if I start it fresh for the first time of the day or if I start it even 5 minutes after sitting. Just a little rough on start up.

 

[dwaymar]

advance the time just a tad if works then great if not then still you have not spent any money

 

[nicksorenson]

Before I advance the timing I need to find out what I'm doing...

Right now the timing mark on the pump matches the mark on the timing gear cover... To advance the timing, am I rotating the pump mark toward the passenger side of the vehicle? I'd assume an 1/8" is about 8-10 degrees?

 

[nicksorenson]

Just checked MPG and I'm getting only 12.6. Is that bad?

12.6 for the Turbo IDI doesn't seem right to me but that's what I'm getting. It's still hard starting if it sits any length of time. I don't see any bubbles in my clear return line from the injector to the Fuel filter. Really I don't see bubbles in any lines. Does that mean I'm OK in the air in fuel dept?

 

[Diesel JD]

Nick something is not right. What is the question. Now you say you have gotten the air out...not sure about that, it is quite easy to leave a hard line or two loose somewhere in the fuel system...something it sounds liek air when cold...but the air intrusion is usually not a problem when warm. I think you've either had the IP off and made it jump timing or the pump itself is beginning to wear out. 12.6MPG is kinda on the low side of normal, but it really depends on your transmission, gearing, your timing, your driving style and many other factors. These trucks get 10mpg on the low side all the way up to 20+-MPG sometimes and anywhere in between.

 

[nicksorenson]

I took a glance at the lines on the IP and I don't see any wetness. I also, tightened the lines at the injectors so I know they are tight. Of course it's terribly difficult to retorque the lines on the IP with it in the truck. What torque do those nuts need anyways? My guess would be around 40ft*lbs