Relocating the CDR - opinions welcome

[Cheaper Jeeper]

My truck has a bit too much blowby for my taste, and with the Banks turbo kit it has on it, the CDR is about 3" from the intake side of the compressor wheel of the turbo - between the turbo and the filter. I'm thinking that much oil vapor going into the turbo can't be all that good for it, and it makes me very nervous.

I've tried building 3 different prototype oil vapor traps and like everyone else, I've found that if they trap enough oil to be worth installing, they also create too much back pressure. If they don't create any blowby backpressure they don't trap oil worth a $%&@ either.

I've looked at the idea of an RDT, but I just don't LIKE the concept. Having smoke (oil vapor) pouring out from under your truck doesn't look any better than having the smoke come out of the tailpipe IMO. Plus the oil is totally wasted - I figure if it's going to get rid of the oil, at least I should try to burn some of it and get some BTUs out of it. Instead of just spitting it out onto the road - which isn't good environmentally. Lastly it makes a mess of the underside of the truck.

So, here's what I'm thinking of doing. I want to use some 3/4" steel pipe fittings to fab a new CDR mount and plumb it to the intake on the OUTSIDE of the air filter - to where the filter would be between the CDR inlet and the turbo compressor. Since I'm using a K&N filter, I figure a fair amount - maybe even most - of the vapor will be trapped in the filter. Since it is an oiled filter, it can't hurt it - just make it self oiling. Whatever does get through the filter will still be going into the engine to be burned.

So what do you think?

 

[Diesel JD]

Not sure what to tell you. My truck also has a fair amount of blowby and I have a GM CDR plumbed into the airbox grommet on one side and a 1" nipple from Banks on the fuel filler neck on the other end. I have yet to see a lot of oil in the intake or in the turbo. My truck has a bit more blowby than 6 Nebraska's Mom's truck and goes through about 2-3 quarts of oil between 3000-3500 mile oil changes.

 

[Cheaper Jeeper]

Not sure what to tell you. My truck also has a fair amount of blowby and I have a GM CDR plumbed into the airbox grommet on one side and a 1" nipple from Banks on the fuel filler neck on the other end. I have yet to see a lot of oil in the intake or in the turbo. My truck has a bit more blowby than 6 Nebraska's Mom's truck and goes through about 2-3 quarts of oil between 3000-3500 mile oil changes.

I can't quite envision your setup the way you're describing it. Got a picture?

My first question would be is the CDR inlet between the air filter & turbo, or is the air filter between the CDR and the turbo? In other words, is the blowby oil vapor going through your air filter?

My second question would be, have you looked at the outlet side of your turbo lately? Mine doesn't have much oil condensation on the inlet & airbox side of the turbo either, but on the outlet side of the turbo there is quite a bit of oil. I think that going through the compressor wheel is compressing the oil vapor and condensing it back into liquid form...

What I'm mainly asking for opinions on is, what (if anything) will be the disadvantages of having the CDR on the other side of the filter? I know there will be less vacuum to close the CDR, but is it going to be enough less to keep it from closing? Is the dirty oil going to hurt my K&N filter element (I doubt it, but some second opinions would be nice). Is the filter going to stop much of the oil vapor and keep it out of the turbo?

 

[suv7734]

It sounds like you're asking if the K&N will filter the oil/vapor before it hits the turbo. If that is correct then you will probably run into problems with the setup you're looking at. The K&N uses a special oil and the crankcase vapours will not work the same way and most likely plug it up. How is your hose routed from the adapter on the front of the timing cover to the CDR? On mine it was routed so there was a high point between the two. What that meant was that any accumulated oil was held in an area between the two. I changed how the hose was routed so that if there was any 'liquid' it could ALL flow back to the timing cover. There is still a bit of oil going to the turbo but nowhere near what there was before and that was ???? miles ago.

 

[RedTruck]

I posted this on TDS a long time ago, but never really got any feedback. I actually talked to a Tech guy at Summit racing about this. He thought it was a pretty good idea. He thought about coming into the can tangentially. This is so the vapors will swirl in the can and cool along the outside wall. The idea is that once the vapors cool they will be heavy enough so that they settle at the bottom. I would think that the longer and wider you can make the can the less chance you have of vapors escaping. I was thinking about using some sort of PVC on the bottom so it can easily be screwed off to empty it. The idea here is if you have enough blow by you could empty it back into your engine. I guess you could just have a drain plug though. I think it would be important to have the majority of the vessel metal so it conducts cold air better.

On another note: I thought Zig had some home made condensor on his rig that worked pretty good.

 

[Cheaper Jeeper]

I posted this on TDS a long time ago, but never really got any feedback. I actually talked to a Tech guy at Summit racing about this. He thought it was a pretty good idea. He thought about coming into the can tangentially. This is so the vapors will swirl in the can and cool along the outside wall. The idea is that once the vapors cool they will be heavy enough so that they settle at the bottom. I would think that the longer and wider you can make the can the less chance you have of vapors escaping. I was thinking about using some sort of PVC on the bottom so it can easily be screwed off to empty it. The idea here is if you have enough blow by you could empty it back into your engine. I guess you could just have a drain plug though. I think it would be important to have the majority of the vessel metal so it conducts cold air better.

On another note: I thought Zig had some home made condensor on his rig that worked pretty good.

That is almost exactly what I built - only it is made out of PVC. The inlet and outlet fittings are all 3/4" OD PVC pipe (about 3/4" ID), and the inlet is on the top and goes to an elbow inside the container that directs the vapor against the inside wall of the wall of the container. The idea being that as the vapor hits the wall, a lot of the oil would condense out of it. The outlet comes out of the side, just below the top plate.

When I hooked it all up yesterday the vapor coming out didn't look any different than what was going in. After about 20 minutes of idling (when the blowby vapor is at its worst) with an occaisional rev up, I unscrewed the catch-can at the bottom and looked inside - pretty much nothing there.

The previous version worked exactly the same way but it was smaller - the fittings and pipes were 1/2" NPT pipe (about 1/2" ID). The smaller pipes meant the vapors were traveling faster and colliding with the inside surface of the container wall caused more oil to condense out of it - probably somewhere around half of it in fact. But unfortunately it created enough backpressure to push oil out the dipstick tube - both at the open top end AND at the bottom where it fits into the block...

 

[Cheaper Jeeper]

It sounds like you're asking if the K&N will filter the oil/vapor before it hits the turbo. If that is correct then you will probably run into problems with the setup you're looking at. The K&N uses a special oil and the crankcase vapours will not work the same way and most likely plug it up. How is your hose routed from the adapter on the front of the timing cover to the CDR? On mine it was routed so there was a high point between the two. What that meant was that any accumulated oil was held in an area between the two. I changed how the hose was routed so that if there was any 'liquid' it could ALL flow back to the timing cover. There is still a bit of oil going to the turbo but nowhere near what there was before and that was ???? miles ago.

Yeah that's pretty much what I'm wondering about too. Will the soot clog my filter too fast? If it would go 3k miles between cleanings, AND take half or more of the oil out before it gets to the turbo, I'd be OK with that. Cleaning and re-oiling the filter at every oil change would be OK with me. I already do it every OTHER oil change any way.

As for the type of oil on the filter, K&N says you have to use their "special" oil, but that isn't strictly true. I've used ATF on the one on my Jeep (it got caked with mud on a wheelin' trip) and it worked just fine. Pretty much any oil will work - its just a lot easier to apply it evenly out of the K&N spray can...

 

[suv7734]

Yeah that's pretty much what I'm wondering about too. Will the soot clog my filter too fast? If it would go 3k miles between cleanings, AND take half or more of the oil out before it gets to the turbo, I'd be OK with that. Cleaning and re-oiling the filter at every oil change would be OK with me. I already do it every OTHER oil change any way.

It's actually best not to clean the K&N unless it is absolutely necessary (plugged). I use a filterminder gauge to monitor mine. It works better when it has a bit of particulate accumulated in the oil on the fiber. The one thing to be careful of if using other oils is that the K&N oil is designed to be rinsed off with water. Many other oils will just make a mess.
You didn't mention how your line is run from the timing cover to the CDR?
Another thing to keep an eye on is the rubber elbow from the air filter housing to the turbo. If it is getting soaked with a lot of oil you will want to keep it relatively clean. If I have mine apart for something I always clean it out and then spray it with silicone spray and rub it in. It helps prevent the oil from penetratiing into the material and softening it.
If your's is really getting soaked with oil you may want to look at one of these I'm not sure about price but it is a nice system.
Just some thoughts.

 

[LUCKY_LARUE60]

So, here's what I'm thinking of doing. I want to use some 3/4" steel pipe fittings to fab a new CDR mount and plumb it to the intake on the OUTSIDE of the air filter - to where the filter would be between the CDR inlet and the turbo compressor. Since I'm using a K&N filter, I figure a fair amount - maybe even most - of the vapor will be trapped in the filter. Since it is an oiled filter, it can't hurt it - just make it self oiling. Whatever does get through the filter will still be going into the engine to be burned.

So what do you think?

Look at this

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...akeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:us

 

[Cheaper Jeeper]

That Racor system looks NICE! Expensive, but nice....

I think you may be misunderstanding me, suv7734. I still plan on using the K&N filter oil. I don't plan on putting it in there dry and letting the blowby do the oiling - though I might oil it a little more lightly since there will be additional oil from the vapor getting added as I drive.

As for the water solubility, I don't wash my filter in water. I know that is what K&N suggests, but I wash mine out with a couple of quarts of clean gas in a plastic dishpan. It gets it cleaner, and it dries a lot faster....

 

[f-two-fiddy]

I've got an Walker Airsep sitting on the shelf in my garage. I ran it for about a week, maybe 2K miles. It did clean up the intake. But I didn't have time or the means to punch a hole in the oil pan, for the return. So when the Airsep filled with blow by oil. I hadda remove it.

It looked promising. I'll be doing heads on my 93 this spring, when it warms up. And I can afford a set of studs. So I'll be able to get a hole into the pan at that time.

By the way. Waker recomends draining the Airsep into the pan. To complete the CC Vacuum process.

 

[Cheaper Jeeper]

I've got an Walker Airsep sitting on the shelf in my garage. I ran it for about a week, maybe 2K miles. It did clean up the intake. But I didn't have time or the means to punch a hole in the oil pan, for the return. So when the Airsep filled with blow by oil. I hadda remove it.

It looked promising. I'll be doing heads on my 93 this spring, when it warms up. And I can afford a set of studs. So I'll be able to get a hole into the pan at that time.

By the way. Waker recomends draining the Airsep into the pan. To complete the CC Vacuum process.

Is the Walker any less money than the Racor? I figure I could afford about half the price they are asking for the Racor - maybe $100...

 

[f-two-fiddy]

Well, they list at around $400

I got mine off Ebay for $25

 

[Cheaper Jeeper]

Well, they list at around $400

I got mine off Ebay for $25

I'll give you $50 for it...

 

[Agnem]

What you need is a centrifigual air filter, like what they use on some locomotives. The theory is the air comes through a long cylinder, which is heavily perforated , and this cylinder is inside another one that is solid. There are vanes in the center cylinder which force the to spin as it goes through. The solid particles of dirt or oil in this case, are forced against the walls of the cylinder, where they fall through the perforations and into the outer cylinder to be drained off or collected in a bin. Only clean air exits the cylinder at the other end. Something to ponder anyway.