Really cold starts? (down to -30F)

[runaway!]

Ok, first, the glow plug system is 12V, the glow plugs are reated for only 6, that means they are red hot very quick. The beru/motorcraft will survive a lot of abuse. When I had jumped timing I had to glow 10-15 seconds to get the thing to start, and always had to use them, hot or cold. That said, I'd say for maximum tolerance of abuse the 12V glow plugs are probably the better choice. You could probably leave them on a couple minutes if need be. They do heat up S-L-O-W the application you want for that is the AC Delco from the early 78-80 5.7 diesel, they have the same thread and pitch as the 6.9/7.3. This was called the slow glow system, it's what my grandfather had in his Delta 88 with the 5.7 diesel, never knew it not to start but as a little kid used to gassers I thought it took FOREVER to cycle. This was no Wisco winter though this was NC, no -30s but 10-20* was common. The only drawback on the 12V plugs is they are more expensive than the ZD-1A berus. Unless you know a place to get AC parts cheap. When Paul still ran Diesel Auto Services, which back in the day when most of us were members of another diesel site was considered one of the better online vendors. He sold "Lucas Constant Duty Marine" glow plugs. A member figured out they were actually a 12V AC Delco glow plug but what application we were never sure, and Paul would never tell. I personally suspect that they were from the 5.7, other people thought maybe some Volvo marine application. I would buy 1 and glow test it and see if it performs to your liking. As far as oils synthetic would be better but it might be dicey to dump it straight in to an old engine like that without either going through something like a slow treatment(auto-rx) and/or changing out engine seals. If it was a fresh build or had already had been treated, I'd say something like Amsoil 5w-40 or Roteall 5W-40, since you probably should stick with mineral based for now, 10W-30 that is diesel rated from Shell-Rotella, Mobil-Delvac, or Chevron-Delo would probably be your best bet.... I've heard of some far north members using 0w-40 IDK if it was synthetic or mineral, I do know I have never seen an oil like that down here, especially not diesel rated, but here I have gotten away with SAE30 rotella in the winter(normally 15/40) and we think it is bitterly cold if it gets under 32* for any length of time at night.

I'll look into this auto-rx, thanks. I am avoiding he temptation to run seafoam for the same reasons.

 

[runaway!]

The stock set will work every time, IF everything is up to *****.
1: 2 fresh batteries
2: custombatterycables.com cables
3: Fresh Nipondenso gear reduction starter
4: Motorcraft/Beru GP's
5: replace the stock Power and Ground cables to the GP relay with a single 4 gauge wire


If You do this, it'll start without any intake heater, or any other Mod.

I've started My 85 (250K Miles) with Just stock stuff, old cables, stock starter @ -25 degrees.

My 93 will fire with the above mentioned stuff @ -25, like it does when its +25.

Gear reduction starter? I'd presume higher torque?

 

[Bill-W]

What if you used two 6v batteries from a marine / golf cart applications, run them in series instead of parallel like we currently run the 12v. Rewire the glow plug system to run 4 off one and 4 off the other using 6v and 12 v for everything else. This should eliminate plug failure at any length but I think it would increase the time needed to preheat. You could also leave it on constant for afterglow instead of pulse.

Check out http://boatsafe.com/nauticalknowhow/marine_battery.htm scroll down to "Batteries Onboard" and you will see what I am referring to.

Might cost a few bucks to figure it out but could be a solution to the GP problems.

 

[f-two-fiddy]

There's no need for all that. If You do the things listed above, it'll start every time in -30 degree temps.

 

[f-two-fiddy]

Gear reduction starter? I'd presume higher torque?

Higher torque than what?

Higher torque is just a way of trying to tempt peeps into buying.

Higher cranking speed is what we're interested in. The Gear Reduction Starters will spin the engine faster. You'd be amazed at the difference. And these engines NEED cranking speed to start. Especially at lower temps.

When I rebuilt My starting system on the '93, I put on new custombatterycables on, 2 new Interstate Commercial Batteries, and a new Nipondenso Gear Reduction Starter on. It was almost scary how fast the engine spins. It fires before a complete revolution. I've been saying that I could prolly drive to town on just the starter. It spins that fast!

 

[dakotajeep]

I agree with f-two-fiddy

I ran mine in Subzero temps down to -30 without plugging in and no issues!!! Thats ND winters not Texas!

I have:

-Custom battery cables
-Same GP as when I bought it two years ago
-Two 1000CCA Duralast Batteries (I LOVE these batteries!!!)

Thats it.

Thad

 

[runaway!]

What if you used two 6v batteries from a marine / golf cart applications, run them in series instead of parallel like we currently run the 12v. Rewire the glow plug system to run 4 off one and 4 off the other using 6v and 12 v for everything else. This should eliminate plug failure at any length but I think it would increase the time needed to preheat. You could also leave it on constant for afterglow instead of pulse.

Check out http://boatsafe.com/nauticalknowhow/marine_battery.htm scroll down to "Batteries Onboard" and you will see what I am referring to.

Might cost a few bucks to figure it out but could be a solution to the GP problems.

Running them in series would create 12v and no solution, if I split them to each side with 6v I would have to rig something to charge them properly.

I bought a set of genuine AC Delco 12g plugs, I plan to test the heck out of them with a battery charger. Slow cook them first to drive out moisture, then multiple 40 second burns. Bought one spare for testing to destruction.

I can post the results in a new thread if anyone is interested. Most likely won't be able to get to testing until next week.

 

[runaway!]

Higher torque than what?

Higher torque is just a way of trying to tempt peeps into buying.

Higher cranking speed is what we're interested in. The Gear Reduction Starters will spin the engine faster. You'd be amazed at the difference. And these engines NEED cranking speed to start. Especially at lower temps.

When I rebuilt My starting system on the '93, I put on new custombatterycables on, 2 new Interstate Commercial Batteries, and a new Nipondenso Gear Reduction Starter on. It was almost scary how fast the engine spins. It fires before a complete revolution. I've been saying that I could prolly drive to town on just the starter. It spins that fast!

I was just curious what the gimmick was with gear reduction, vs direct drive. I assumed the idea was more torque due to increased resistance and lower CCA from the cold.

 

[f-two-fiddy]

Nope, it's the added cranking speed.

Do a search for DB Electrical

They sell the starters for a very good price, and are great to deal with.

 

[runaway!]

Concerning custom cables, what gauge wire should be used considering the plans for 2 extra batteries? They will be placed in boxes from an E350 that are to be bolted onto the frame, most likely just behind the cab. I know that a run that long will generate some significant resistance and heat.

 

[f-two-fiddy]

Why would You do that?

 

[runaway!]

Nope, it's the added cranking speed.

Do a search for DB Electrical

They sell the starters for a very good price, and are great to deal with.

Wow, that is a good price even compared to ebay.

 

[Mat J]

there should be room under the hood to add atleast 1 more battery if you wanted it. for connecting batteries I always try to use 4/0 but i cant always get it for a good price so settle with 1/0 and it works fine.

 

[runaway!]

Why would You do that?

lol, because I already bought the battery boxes. Consider it extra insurance, getting stranded at -30 is really a health hazard. I almost got kilt last year when I put my kia in the pickers at -30 with windchill bringing that number to -50. Several people died walking from their stranded vehicles that day, only about a quarter mile in distance.

If I bring this truck up to northern Wisconsin, and run into this same situation - guaranteed trouble. May not run into another person for miles.

It really is a big risk up here, not so much the cold alone but the wind complicates things when you are close to lake michigan or superior.

 

[f-two-fiddy]

Yeah, I know about winter hazards. I live in Duluth. A 60 MPH Northeastern wind coming 100+ miles across Lake Superior when it's -30 will chill You to the bone in less than a minute. Usually just safer to hunker down for a coupla days, till it warms, or the winds subside.

There's really no need for 4 batteries, but that's up to You. If Your going to do a custom setup like that. You'll want to invest in quality ott 0/0 guage cable, and get a good crimping tool. Prolly want to step up to Type 31 batteries (I think those are the ones with screw terminals?)

Your best investment might be a set of Blizzak tires. They'll keep You on the road, especially in sub zero temps, where other tires turn into rolling ice blocks.