raccor CCV install project...

[towcat]

Been working on a different CDR setup for some time here. I've seen various ideas and have worked out a slightly different "concept". Two weeks ago, I took it off the idea board with the purchase of a Raccor CCV4500. Let me sketch out the idea...
I am using the valve cover off my ATS unit and plumbing the Raccor downstream. Rather than dumping the "cleaned" output back into the intake duct like the assembly sheet reccomended, I am going to re-route the output to the exhaust system using the anti-backflow valve tapped into the piping.
The idea behind this is the RDT is a good idea but has two drawbacks. One...the vapors are heavy enough with liquids where the vehicle "looks" like its on fire. Two...there is no negative vaccumm pressure in the crankcase created by the RDT so the problem with oil leaking past the seals is a problem. It's "pollitically incorrect" to plumb crankcase gasses back into the exhaust, so the exhaust is not a duscussed about idea. So, here's a step foward idea...why not clean the raw vapors out of the crankcase with the Raccor and use the exhaust velocity to draw the "cleansed" vapors out the system with the negative pressure from the exhaust flow.
Well, here's the reality. the CCV4500 is the smallest out of the Raccor lineup but its still pretty big in our cramped engine compartments, so its going to be needed to bemounted elsewhere. see the pics for the size comparo with the bottle of Delo.
More to be posted as the project progresses....

 

[The Warden]

Three questions

First, regarding the anti-backflow valve. I've never seen one apart, so I don't know how it works. The venturi effect that the exhaust nipple's supposed to have theoretically makes it so that the pressure in the line going to the nipple is always negative. Will this negative pressure keep the backflow valve open, or does the backflow valve need pressure on the other side to open (i.e. putting a slight bit of positive pressure in the crankcase)?

Second, IIRC some have had problems with CCV's creating positive crankcase pressure. Do you think that the negative pressure from the nipple will negate that? If not, any thoughts on that matter?

Third, how much is the CCV? Also, IIRC there's a drain line back to the engine from the CCV...any thoughts on where you're going to have it flow back in yet?

Cool project!! Can't wait to see the results...

 

[sle2115]

Three questions

First, regarding the anti-back flow valve. I've never seen one apart, so I don't know how it works. The venturi effect that the exhaust nipple's supposed to have theoretically makes it so that the pressure in the line going to the nipple is always negative. Will this negative pressure keep the back flow valve open, or does the back flow valve need pressure on the other side to open (i.e. putting a slight bit of positive pressure in the crankcase)?

The vacuum from the exhaust opens the valve, no pressure needed. It is the same concept as a A.I.R. re-circulation valve in a gasser. It is basically a one way valve and pressure will not open it, it takes vacuum. On a gasser, the valve often hooks to one side of the catalytic converter, and only allows air to be drawn out of the exhaust (not forced by pressure) when the air pump "sucks" on the line attached to the valve. At least that is how the kits I have work, I have used them on gassers many times, they make substantial vacuum.

Second, IIRC some have had problems with CCV's creating positive crankcase pressure. Do you think that the negative pressure from the nipple will negate that? If not, any thoughts on that matter?

He is going to eliminate the pressure by "sucking" on the CCV. This is exactly the idea I had, but I don't have the valve cover. I was welding up my own CCV, smaller in size. When I talked to some of my hi-po buddies, their only concern with positive evac system was putting oil in the exhaust. The CCV seems to be the perfect way to capture, condense and keep the oil out of the exhaust.

Third, how much is the CCV? Also, IIRC there's a drain line back to the engine from the CCV...any thoughts on where you're going to have it flow back in yet?

Cool project!! Can't wait to see the results...

I don't know about the price, towcat will have to answer that. I was using a "home-built" unit. I thought about just putting a drain valve on mine. Hopefully, it would hold enough that at each oil change, the unit could be drained, but here-in lies where my CCV size will be a total experimentation and would definitely be affected by each engine.

I can't wait to see your results as well. Hopefully, I will locate a set of valve covers. I had a set located, but the person that has them has been very busy. Maybe we will get something worked out. I had planned to put a baffle in the valve cover to slow down the vapor, and possibly a sealed vent type cap that has an oil vapor barrier, so even more could be condensed and drain back into the valve cover, then on to the CCV, and then finally to the exhaust.

 

[The Warden]

sle, why pull the blowby out of the valve covers? A Banks CCV adapter works very well for venting the crankcase gases IMHO. That's how I'm running right now...a Banks adapter, with a hose going from there aft, venting the blowby to atmosphere back near the transfer case.

towcat's valve cover's already got the hole, so he may as well use it...but IMHO if you don't already have the hole, no need to drill it or replace the valve cover with one that's been drilled. The Banks adapter goes between the IP drive gear cover and the oil filler pipe (basically, a spacer with a 1" hose nipple on it), and works just as well (and can be removed if need be)...and IIRC cost me only $30 new from Banks.

Just a thought...

And, thanks for the answers. I wasn't sure if sucking on the CCV would be enough to deal with its restrictions or not; OTOH, it's 0400 and the gears in my brain are grinding instead of engaging Interesting that the anti-backflow valve only opens with suction...

Actually, one other question...regarding location of the nipple in the exhaust. Should it be closer to the downpipe or closer to the exhaust exit? And, if your exhaust is stepped up in any place (i.e. 3" to 4"), should the nipple be before the step-up, afterwards, or on the adapter, for maximum suction? I'm thinking offhand that the gases will be moving at a higher velocity with a smaller pipe, so it'd be better to put the nipple as close to the downpipe as possible without risking melting the hose...but, again, it's 0400 and I could well be completely off my rocker (again )...

 

[Agnem]

I'm curious how the drain back from the device works. If the drain is submerged in crankcase oil somehow, I can see how that would be OK, but if somehow the sucking power on the Racor's vapor output is too high, could it potentially suck oil out of the crankcase then?

 

[tuckerd1]

I'm curious how the drain back from the device works. If the drain is submerged in crankcase oil somehow, I can see how that would be OK, but if somehow the sucking power on the Racor's vapor output is too high, could it potentially suck oil out of the crankcase then?

The RACOR CCV has a checkvalve in the drain. Go HERE for more info.

 

[towcat]

Three questions

First, regarding the anti-backflow valve. I've never seen one apart, so I don't know how it works. The venturi effect that the exhaust nipple's supposed to have theoretically makes it so that the pressure in the line going to the nipple is always negative. Will this negative pressure keep the backflow valve open, or does the backflow valve need pressure on the other side to open (i.e. putting a slight bit of positive pressure in the crankcase)?

Second, IIRC some have had problems with CCV's creating positive crankcase pressure. Do you think that the negative pressure from the nipple will negate that? If not, any thoughts on that matter?

Third, how much is the CCV? Also, IIRC there's a drain line back to the engine from the CCV...any thoughts on where you're going to have it flow back in yet?

Cool project!! Can't wait to see the results...

tim-
-the idea with the valve has been covered by other responses. I can't explain it better at this point...
-the CCV theoretically should not be a restriction as long as there is something creating a negative pressure draw out of the crankcase
-as far as price, I got a really good deal from another member here and if it wasn't for that, this idea would still be sitting on the drawing board.
-the collected oil is prolly going to get drained and manually refilled back into the crankcase. I don't have any intention to mount this monster in the engine compartment at this point.

 

[tuckerd1]

I don't have any intention to mount this monster in the engine compartment at this point.

I have the 4500 also and agree with this! It is big!

I have thought about mounting a catch can for the oil drain and dumping it at each oil change.

 

[sle2115]

sle, why pull the blowby out of the valve covers? A Banks CCV adapter works very well for venting the crankcase gases IMHO. That's how I'm running right now...a Banks adapter, with a hose going from there aft, venting the blowby to atmosphere back near the transfer case.

towcat's valve cover's already got the hole, so he may as well use it...but IMHO if you don't already have the hole, no need to drill it or replace the valve cover with one that's been drilled. The Banks adapter goes between the IP drive gear cover and the oil filler pipe (basically, a spacer with a 1" hose nipple on it), and works just as well (and can be removed if need be)...and IIRC cost me only $30 new from Banks.

Just a thought...

And, thanks for the answers. I wasn't sure if sucking on the CCV would be enough to deal with its restrictions or not; OTOH, it's 0400 and the gears in my brain are grinding instead of engaging Interesting that the anti-backflow valve only opens with suction...

Actually, one other question...regarding location of the nipple in the exhaust. Should it be closer to the downpipe or closer to the exhaust exit? And, if your exhaust is stepped up in any place (i.e. 3" to 4"), should the nipple be before the step-up, afterwards, or on the adapter, for maximum suction? I'm thinking offhand that the gases will be moving at a higher velocity with a smaller pipe, so it'd be better to put the nipple as close to the downpipe as possible without risking melting the hose...but, again, it's 0400 and I could well be completely off my rocker (again )...

Well, I have an 87, the oil fill is different. Not to mention, I want to remove oil vapor in three steps: First at the baffle inside the valve cover (if possible, won't know until I get the covers but I would guess there is enough room between the rockers) as in a gasser, the baffle will condensate about 30-40% of the oil suspended/vaporized in the pressurized air. Second, I want to use a second canister type cap that should help remove even more. These baffles are open air and have no restriction, which I know several have a fear of, because they are more a series of shelves that forces the air to zig-zag, not flow through a material like steel wool. Third step would be to condensate and collect what is left in the CCV.

Air flow is what will determine vacuum. I have used this system in open header systems (drag cars) where we just bolted a collector on the end that was 5" or so and welded the slant cut nipple into it. Placement would pretty much be user determined, but if you split the system into duals, I would want it before that. We usually just welded them in each leg of the y-pipe. If you went up from 3 to 4 or 5 inch, then I would want it in the 3 inch where the most volume is.

 

[sle2115]

I'm curious how the drain back from the device works. If the drain is submerged in crankcase oil somehow, I can see how that would be OK, but if somehow the sucking power on the Racor's vapor output is too high, could it potentially suck oil out of the crankcase then?

Check valve!

In my previous uses, we never had to worry about it, so this will be my challenge and the whole reason I want to use valve covers, baffles etc. to minimize what even makes it to the CCV.

 

[geonc]

In the last years of my IDI, she developed quite a thirst for Rotella....1 gallon a day for the last 16 months

So I fabbed up what we used on high po marine Detroits to keep the engine rooms with those $300+ dollar a gallon paint jobs oil film free......

I rigged up a 12" long piece of 4" schd 80 PVC filled with bronze wool and some perferated baffels that sat just to the right of the radiator....I then brazed a bushing to the CDR hole in the valley pan--mine was N/A but I believe with the oil fill adaptor it would work the same-- then I routed 1" spa hose up the back as high as poss then dropped down to the bottom of the collector where a brass tee briught the oil into the collector.

I used spa rated hose to deal with the under hood temps without collapsing/deteroriating.

On the end of the tee was a 1" ball valve for drainage.
The top was fitted with a screw on cap tha had a 3/4" 90 that returned to a brazed fitting in the filter lid to a brass pipe that ended a 1/4" above the screen....this was to stop any oil from fouling the air filter.

Mine was not as pretty as the stainless ones we made for the yachits but it worked

Just my couple pennies

 

[geonc]

In the last years of my IDI, she developed quite a thirst for Rotella....1 gallon a day for the last 16 months

So I fabbed up what we used on high po marine Detroits to keep the engine rooms with those $300+ dollar a gallon paint jobs oil film free......

I rigged up a 12" long piece of 4" schd 80 PVC filled with bronze wool and some perferated baffels that sat just to the right of the radiator....I then brazed a bushing to the CDR hole in the valley pan--mine was N/A but I believe with the oil fill adaptor it would work the same-- then I routed 1" spa hose up the back as high as poss then dropped down to the bottom of the collector where a brass tee briught the oil into the collector.
The routing of the hose as high as poss and feeding the collector bottom ensured most of the actual oil stayed in the engine and what was vaporised had to really fight the bronze wool and the height of the collector to even make it back to the intake.

I used spa rated hose to deal with the under hood temps without collapsing/deteroriating.

On the end of the tee was a 1" ball valve for drainage.
The top was fitted with a screw on cap tha had a 3/4" 90 that returned to a brazed fitting in the filter lid to a brass pipe that ended a 1/4" above the screen....this was to stop any oil from fouling the air filter.

Mine was not as pretty as the stainless ones we made for the yachits but it worked

Just my couple pennies

 

[geonc]

double post
Tried to edit and this is what happend

 

[Diesel JD]

Why can't you just dump the air that has been cleaned overboard just like a RDT. I know you all say that it may cause a positive crankcase pressure in the engine...I can't remember that happening with the CCV though I know it did with The Warden's breathable oil filler cap. Seems like if it won't cause too much backpressure you could just plumb a 1" hose from a banks adapter to the CCV, and from the CCV to the outside air...or will it cause too much pressure?

 

[sle2115]

Why can't you just dump the air that has been cleaned overboard just like a RDT. I know you all say that it may cause a positive crankcase pressure in the engine...I can't remember that happening with the CCV though I know it did with The Warden's breathable oil filler cap. Seems like if it won't cause too much backpressure you could just plumb a 1" hose from a banks adapter to the CCV, and from the CCV to the outside air...or will it cause too much pressure?

I will probably start with that and see how it goes, then progess to the weld in t's. Having a "draw" would really help keep things evacuated.