Pop Testing New ones and IP ?

[FoMoCo]

I have a few fuel leaks at the injectors, so it is time for the new injectors. My question is do you need to pop test the New stanadyne injectors? I can have them tested, but I would have to wait until next week to reinstall them.

Second question, The truck runs fine, but since I was installing new Injectors I was going to have the IP rebuilt. The cost of rebuild is 495 to 695 depending on what is wrong. It should be more like 495 since the truck is running just fine. Should I have the IP rebuilt? The truck has almost 300,000 miles on it.

 

[riotwarrior]

I have a few fuel leaks at the injectors, so it is time for the new injectors. My question is do you need to pop test the New stanadyne injectors? I can have them tested, but I would have to wait until next week to reinstall them.

In all likelyhood all you need is a return line kit with new O rings and just for added insurance get the new Olives for the hard lines too. Contact Russ or typ4 here for a kit or Mel Agnem at Conestoga diesel both have great products and service for return line kits.

If your injectors are painted grey like the engine they would be originals and ya then replacement would be well worth the investment.

Both Mel or Russ can provide injectors as well.

Second question, The truck runs fine, but since I was installing new Injectors I was going to have the IP rebuilt. The cost of rebuild is 495 to 695 depending on what is wrong. It should be more like 495 since the truck is running just fine. Should I have the IP rebuilt? The truck has almost 300,000 miles on it.

If your truck has an original IP then it may be a good idea to redo the IP Mel at Conestoga Diesel provides an outstanding pump for your daily driver ride. Check him out here http://www.conestogadiesel.com/

JM2CW

Al

 

[gandalf]

If memory serves me correctly, both Mel and Russ pop test all injectors before they send them out. In essence, both of them send a "matched" group of injectors. That's part of their 'better service' program they offer customers. Most injector suppliers do not bother to do this.

As Riotwarrior has said, if your IP and/or injectors are original, at 300,000 miles, they are long overdue for replacement. Their gradual decline may have been such that you became used to it every step along the way. If you do replace both, be sure to do a return line kit as well.

 

[icanfixall]

Well all thats sid so far is correct. Injecters or injection pumps usually last around 125,000 miles. anything more than that is a lucky thing. Some even get less miles than that. The leaks your seeing are probably the bad return line o-rings. there under the plastic injecter caps. thats the caps with the rubber lines from each injecter to the other. If you choose to just do the return line kit getting off the caps and then the o-rings needs to be done completely clean. Then remove the o-rings with an exacto knife and a dental pic. Install the top o-ring in the top groove and roll the bottom o-ring over the top o-ring. Never try to install the bottom o-ring in the bottom groove first. You risk damageing it and then it will leak for sure. If the injecters are replaced the torque is 35 lbs. Cleaning out the bore in the heads is important too. Making sure you get the old copper gasket out too is very important but thats a differant job not needed to discuss till you want to do that job. Removeing the injection pump is a complete differant story too. Much can be said for the only real way to remove and install it. Plenty of information is posted here about it too for the asking. If all this work is done the engine absolutely must be timed. Hopefully you can find a shop that will time the engine. If not I may be able to offer some help with timing.

 

[FoMoCo]

I have the lines off and about ready to remove the Injectors and pump. Mine is the Turbo model, so a little more work. I need to see how to remove the IP. I have loosen the 9/16 nuts on the back side and I turned the motor looking for timing marks, but all I can see is a groove. That groove is lined up with the pointer, but do I need to remove the side panel of the IP to see where it is, since It could be 180 degrees off?

 

[gandalf]

BEFORE you start to remove the IP you've got to read Mel's Article.
If you don't read that, you might make a serious error, one which will require much work and heartache to remedy. When I did my IP I printed the appropriate pages and had them handy throughout the job. This saves a great deal of pain and suffering.

 

[riotwarrior]

I have the lines off and about ready to remove the Injectors and pump. Mine is the Turbo model, so a little more work. I need to see how to remove the IP. I have loosen the 9/16 nuts on the back side and I turned the motor looking for timing marks, but all I can see is a groove. That groove is lined up with the pointer, but do I need to remove the side panel of the IP to see where it is, since It could be 180 degrees off?

NEVER EVER REMOVE THAT IP GEAR COVER!!!!!

DON'T DON'T DON'T remove the IP and GEAR cover what ever you do

follow mels article on IP replacement as posted!

NEVER EVER REMOVE THAT IP GEAR COVER!!!!!

 

[FoMoCo]

I say that the IP supports the timing gear and if you lift and turn that gear, boy you would be in trouble. I did not mess with the gear cover, I had Mels article printed out back when I bought my Injectors and line kit years ago from Midwest Fuel Injection Service back in Jan 2005. I did not know about the Moose back when I bought these injectors. There is a Diesel Service here in Brownsville that can rebuild my pump, time it, and pop test the injectors.

The problem is some injectors do not want to come out. The ones that had a fuel leak came out no problem (2). Two more are out, that just leaves 4 to go. I sprayed them down several time with PB blaster. Lets see want a new day brings. I Does anybody have a trick to get the injectors out. I have been using a 1 in socket on a breaker bar. I was wondering if you could use an IMPACT set on low and rocket the injectors back and forth, while spraying with WD-40????

I did notice one glow plug (#7) is broke flush with the head. Should I risk it and try and remove the glow plugs? I have set of new ones.

I also noticed that ever time I turned the motor to line the groove in the pulley to the timing mark, which I did not have to do, I heard and felt a load metal CLANK sound, I think it is the 2 piece flywheel, but might not be. Does anybody know if you can remove the oil pan without lifting the motor?????

 

[icanfixall]

You really can't remove the oil pan without raising the engine up several inches. Lots of stuff needs to be removed before the engine is pushed up too. The oil pump pickup tube suction head is right at the bottom of the sump at the drin plug. Drain the oil and feel up in there for it. You will se its about 1/8th inch clearance. So removing that pickup line is a tuff job. Arms and hands just wont bend that way. Yes. The impact gun can be used to loosen the injecters but take it easy doing this. The rocking them back and forth is a great idea. You may find those stuck in the head injecters have no copper gaskets on the bottom of them. Then the bores will be full of carbon. That will need to be cleaned out before you install new injecter. WD40 is really useless around most anything. Your better off using Aerokroil or PB Blaster.

 

[riotwarrior]

The problem is some injectors do not want to come out. The ones that had a fuel leak came out no problem (2). Two more are out, that just leaves 4 to go. I sprayed them down several time with PB blaster. Lets see want a new day brings. I Does anybody have a trick to get the injectors out. I have been using a 1 in socket on a breaker bar. I was wondering if you could use an IMPACT set on low and rocket the injectors back and forth, while spraying with WD-40????

Sounds like you're going to be doing the GOTTA DO WHATCHA Gotta do to get those injectors out.

What is more than likely going on is that the injector cap/tip is stuck due to carbon buildup. This makes the lower portion of the injector stick in the bore while the upper half gets undone and removed.

Now this is not really a big deal in the grand scheme of things. Just take an old injector upper half, grind down the threads that go into the head and then you can screw it back into the the lower portion and in a clockwise motion rotate it slowly while lifting up.

I had a friend make me a special one, he used a lathe and bored a hole in the injector tip where the fuel line attaches and subsequently it's threaded for a VICE grip bolt. I have a fitting that goes onto my slide hammer and then that into the injector and slam those bad boys out!

Good luck

As for the GP's again...gotta do whatcha gotta do!

JM2CW

Al

FYI

Looky here this is my thread
http://www.oilburners.net/forums/showthread.php?59460-Stuck-injector-puller&highlight=slide+hammer

 

[FoMoCo]

Lots of Carbon

Your better off using Aerokroil or PB Blaster.

Thanks for the help, all the injectors are out, some came apart, and I damaged some. Not going to rebuild this set. There was lots of Carbon. The carbon was so bad, I had the injectors completely unthreaded and I had to pry up and tap with a hammer at the same time. I don't know about the copper washers I need to get all that carbon out before I can even see the washers. I know 2 injectors came out with the washers.

Any advice on getting the carbon out? What is a good solvent for carbon? I was going to use a brush on a drill and a shop vac, but need to know what cleaner to use. What is Aerokroil??

Might have to pull turbo to get to broken glow plug, but to tired for now

 

[icanfixall]

Aerokroil is made by Kano Labs. It the best penatrating oil that money can buy. The have a great offer. Buy 2 cans. If you don't like it send back the unused can and keep the used can.. you will never send back any of their product. Chipping out the carbon with a wide scraper or sharp screw driver will do it but be carfeul at the bottom. you do not want to cut the gasket seat in the head. Once all this is cleaned out and you know the copper gaskets are removed use a dental pick and drag it around the cast iron seat. If it stops anywhere thats a cut seat and it will need to be refinished with a seat reamer. I can loan you that special tool if needed. I hope its not needed. When the new injecters are installed use some anti sieze on the body threads only. That way the next time they come out it will be much easier. Also the injecter torque is 35 lbs.

 

[gandalf]

Cleaning the carbon might be challenging. It's in an awkward place, down in the bores, and hard to get to. As Gary said, be very careful not to damage the seat at the bottom.

I have a very vague recollection that somebody posted that a 12 gauge bore cleaner fit well. Will this help? I honestly don't know. The answer to that comes out as a definite maybe.

Good luck.

 

[icanfixall]

Breaking loose the thin layer of carbon can be a tuff job. Take it slow and easy. Feel how deep the bore is and use some tape on the tool your using to remove the carbon. That will tell you how deep your going. Copper will scratch easy so if any gaskets are stuck at the bottm they will pretect the cast iron seat in the head better. I like to use a lite with a clamp on it. I call them rice bowl lites. Home dept sells them cheap too. Seeing what your doing is important. You might also place some grease in the bottom opening of the bore so lots of carbon does not drop into the cylinder thru the precup. Its not likely you will drop enough material into the cylinders and cause a locked up engine either. But that did happen to one member years ago. Carbon can be really hard and cause some issues.

 

[Agnem]

...There is a Diesel Service here in Brownsville that can rebuild my pump, time it, and pop test the injectors.

Just an FYI for you guys, when shopping around for places to do your pumps and what not, keep in mind that there are a lot of shops out there. You can safeguard yourself somewhat, by at least ensuring that the shop you do business with, is a member of the Association of Diesel Specialists (ADS). And that your ADS shop participates in the Nationwide Warranty Program. In this way, if you have your pump rebuilt, and have a problem while you are away on vacation or whatever, and you have to use a different shop, if it is an ADS shop, and they participate in the Nationwide Warranty Program, then you are covered. Also, ADS member shops are held to a standard of excellence and membership is not issued until a shop proves that they have what it takes to do business properly. While this alone doesn't prevent a shop from ending up in the hall of shame, it at least ensures you that you are dealing with a reputable company. Be sure to ask to see their current membership certificate! Some shops join once, then drop out or are kicked out. Make sure they are current. Find an ADS shop, or read up on ADS here... http://diesel.org/find-a-location