performance ?

[dairieman36]

what is it about our idi's that we cant build big power is it just the compression is so high or is it just because it so old and not computer controlled?

 

[Andylad13]

you can run a lot of psi to get your power your looking for if your willing to dish out a lot of money for crazy head gaskets, bolts, and the turbo setup itself, and a new pump and injectors....and probably other things.

computer has nothing to do with it

 

[dairieman36]

ok i am planning on rebuilding it next summer what are the best performance parts to build these motors up with i want power but also reliability i use this truck to make the better portion of my income

 

[sle2115]

Well, the computer DOES have something to do with it! If it didn't, the performance chips would be of no use. Injector timing and duration, transmission activity, etc. can all be modified via the computer. I would venture to say waste gate settings and such can be as well. An IDI is limited by several things, high compression being one of them and it is required for ignition. Ken had a sound bite of an 18to1 motor (IIRC) that cranked forever to get going, once running, it had a turbo stuffing air into it so it made serious horsepower, or so I am told. A pump such as Ken's or the Moose pump are optimized to push more fuel and on a different torque curve or so I would assume.

 

[FordGuy100]

Yes, I would agree that right now, the high compression ratio of our IDI's are the limiting factor. Nobody makes a set of head gaskets that can hold any more than 15psi safely, unless you want to go custome which would be super expensive. And since we can only push 15 or so psi into our IDI's, that limits how much fuel we can push into them, and thats where the real power is....more fuel. Basically if one could just turn up the pump and it could completly burn all the fuel (ie no black smoke plus excessive EGT's) then there would be no need for a turbo. The turbo isnt what makes the power, the turbo is just adding air so you can turn up the pump, and burn more fuel because you have more air.

If you want to get some good power out of an IDI, then it will cost you. You will need to buy some lower compression pistons (heard somewhere Mahle will make you them), or stock pistons plus low compression connecting rods. If I were to do it, I would probably drop the CR down to about 19:1, but it never gets below the teens here for really cold temps, and I can live with going through starters yearly. Then I would say go through the heads and clean them up some. Next you would have to do your standard rebuild things, maybe a custom ground cam. Then you will need some good injectors, and a high performance pump (ie DPS or Moose pump). Along with all that, you will more than likely need a custom turbo setup, though you might be able to get a hypermax kit set up for you from factory so it can push some good air (if you can 25psi, but it depends on how much you drop the CR). And an intercooler. Also, I would probably try to get a set of custome head gaskets to hold the boost. It would be an expensive build, but I think you would be in the 300-350hp range.

 

[greythorn3]

wonder if they ever oring the cylnders like drag bikes.. that would allow it to seal better if you had the proper head studs.

Ray

 

[icanfixall]

Turbo rods and pistons are a must have item. Then you need to equal out all the precup chambers in the heads so the cylinders make the same power. Then each piston needs to come up out of the cylinder the same amount. I went as much as 54 thousands above the deck and that was too much. Factory setting are no more than 31 thousands. My second motor has each piston 24 to 26 thousands out of the cylinders. Now the complete cold and hot gas path needs to be "cleaned" up. The amount of porting is up to you. These heads have plenty of ruff casting flaws in the intake and exhaust ports. Then the exhaust manifold logs need to be cleaned up too. The intake manifold can be ported also but it really big already. Just make sure its port matched. Remember these motors are nothing more than an air pump. That means the ports only pass air, no gas or diesel is involved here like a gasser. The ports can be a mirror finich but thats really only for racing. Our trucks usually just haul grocerys... Line boreing or honing the crank webs in the block will help with the drag. Look at the bearing when they come out of the motor. If you see wear on one side then thats an area that will benifit from line boring. Factory specs were hit and miss... Kinda thats close enough. Use Felpro head gaskets. They are 10 thousands thicker than stock at around 74 thousands before installation. Spin balance everything. Mine has the pistons between 1/3 and 1/2 gram of being exactly the same weight. Iused Mahle low comp pistons and Mahle bearings throught. Install a Moos pump and crank up the boost no more than 12 lbs. Anything more is lost because the turbo heats the air up to about 300 degrees going into the motor. If you can add an intercooler. Then you can boost the heck out of it. Lastly make sure you have a set of head studs. New stock head bolts I had tested to failure broke at 153,000 psi. ARP 7 inch studs are 200,000 and they work fine. You need to torque them down 5 times to set them properly. What I did was use a cracked head and an out head gasket and torqued mine down 7 times. In this area a little more is fine. They really moved lots after I had the first torque to 100 lbs. The nuts moved about 1/2 more turns. After all this you can add grill gas (propane) or window washer fluid injection (water methonal injection) and maybe some nitrus oxide for some giggles..... Other than that maybe nothing more....

 

[FordGuy100]

..... Other than that maybe nothing more....

Other than that.....mabye someone should figure out how to CAD up some aluminum heads that move the injectors to right over top of the piston, and to use something crazy like 12 valve injectors.....then feed them with an inline 8 cylinder IP out of some medium duty engine. Then a grid heater, some good 12 volt plugs, at least 3 batteries.....and some super low compression. And last but not least, a custom turbo setup that can push some serious air. I would think at that point, you would have to do some bottom end modding, pistons, connecting rods, crank?, main girdle...ect. I've thought that all of the things I've listed above in this post would be an awsome way to get some power, but maybe I'm wrong/and or it is impossible.

And of course if you could do all this, I wouldnt want to foot the bill

 

[Ironman03R]

The limiting factor is that NOBODY wants to see what the limit is.



When I get the 93 goin its either gonna make big power, or big pieces!

 

[Optikalillushun]

im interested on just how much the exhaust manifolds can be cleaned up. i have plenty of time, so maybe picking up a set and having at them with the die grinder will help. ceramic paint or if i have the cash ceramic coat them...keep the heat in.

then maybe ceramic paint or ceramic coat the intake manifold and intercooler pipes.

 

[Ironman03R]

When I had my manifold off, I didnt really see anywhere that I could smooth out. For a cast iron part it seemed really thin and the ports are already big. All manifolds are the same turbo through N/A other than vans right?

 

[WildWest]

wonder if they ever oring the cylnders like drag bikes.. that would allow it to seal better if you had the proper head studs.

Ray

I spoke to my local speed/machine shop they said they could not o ring these engines

He talked about how expensive the ARP studs are but mentions a chromatic gasket or monochromatic i didnt really understand what he was talking about.

He didnt know what they cost off hand but he said for a 350 they are 75$ per he suggested decking the heads and block for a true gasket surface and running those gaskets.

 

[92F350CC]

The reason nobody bothers spending money to try it is because a 12 valve cummins is cheaper and easier to modify, with the power just waiting to be unlocked.

 

[dairieman36]

well sounds like a lotta work for 3-350 hp but i am a fan of power and my idi so as long as i can come up with the money to do it i think i will push it to it limit i want 400 hp if it breaks well i'll start over till i get it right and if not i'll settle for 300 but at least we will know what these motors can take

 

[tractorman86]

Other than that.....mabye someone should figure out how to CAD up some aluminum heads that move the injectors to right over top of the piston

that sure would be the ticket, i have to think we could handle 400 w/turbo rods and LC pistons all ballenced and all the other goodies mensioned