Oh $hit.

[92F350CC]

This isn't a diesel, but i may be buying one if this doesn't go well, and this question is more about bolts than the engine itself, so i figure you guys could help me, as there isn't any traffic whatsoever in the gasser section.

The water pump on the truck went out this week. Went to change it, and the bolts are rusted in. Ended up busting 3 of them off, and getting the others out fine. I know i can pry the pump off, but what what are my prospects for getting those bolts out without destroying things? This sucks. I need this truck in the worst way. It is my bread and butter. I can't drive it now, winter's upon us, and if i don't get this fixed NOW, the block is going to freeze(all the coolant has spilled out, and no way to circulate new coolant with the engine all torn apart). I may just have it towed into a shop, but I don't want to, because of $$$$. If i have to spend a lot of money to fix it, then i'm going to a dealership and replacing the whole truck.

 

[bigblu78]

Are the bolts broke off flush with the pump or with the engine? If there some of the bolt exposed you could try some heat before grabbing whats left of the bolt and backing it out. If its flush with the block, I'm afraid its going to have to be drilled out and removed/retapped.

 

[Ford428CJ]

I'm afraid its going to have to be drilled out and removed/retapped.

I will agree with that! I had to do that with my exhaust bolt (stuck in the head) on my 6.9. I wasn't about to pull the head to do it .....

 

[92F350CC]

Guess i should have worded it better. My old man went to change it, and he's the one doing the work, as i've been letting him use it lately, and he's about a day's drive from me right now. We both use the truck as part of our business. Getting in contact with him is a little sketchy as there is very poor phone reception where he's at right now. I'll have to ask him if it's broke off flush. Quick question, is it bolted into the block, or into the timing cover?

 

[Ford428CJ]

What engine is this that you are working on??? But it would more then likely be the block and not the cover....JMO

 

[bigblu78]

I am assuming it is on your 5.8l truck which honestly I have know idea about. I did however do some investigating and found that broken bolts on those motors is a common problem. After reading some more I found that several people reported accidently drilling into thier timing covers trying to retreive the broken bolt. Here is one instance:

http://www.automotiveforums.com/t484834-water_pump_trouble.html

 

[rthomas]

if theyre broken off flush get a set of reverse drill bits, theyre worth 10x what you pay for them, much better than easy outs or welding a nut on the tip of the threads

 

[jharvey]

Something to try if there's enough of the bolt to get a pair of vice grips on.....
heat the bolt up and spray it with some penetrating oil PB or better yet Kroil if you can get it in your time frame not everybody carries it.

BEFORE trying to back the bolt out tighten it up a smidge, I know sounds bassackwards but trust me, if it will move in the clockwise direction heat again and respray with penetrating oil then it should back out, just be gentle with it.

Kroil

 

[Brimmstone]

A trick I have used over the years is to take a nut just slightly larger than the broken bolt and weld the nut to the remains. I have gotten out bolts other people said needed to go to a machine shop. The best was getting three bolts out of a 390 in an old T-Bird. A previous shop had broken them when they were replacing the exhaust manifolds then wanted to charge the guy to have the head pulled and repaired. It took a few tries but they came out. Another good instance was the starter bolts in a ZF 5 speed. Both bolts snapped flush. It took me about 40 nuts to get the job done because of all the corrosion. I would get them to turn a little but then snap off. It took me about two hours but I got them out. You can use a mig but I prefer a stick welder to weld the nuts on. I have found they put alot more heat into the remains of the bolt and it helps to get them out. If you need the bolts Dorman products sell the hard to find ones. The part number is 23744. They are the one really long one and the two with studs on the top.

 

[sle2115]

In the machine shop, it was just heat. We heated all those old rust welded bolts, plugs, etc. While I have heard to use penetrating oil, the guy who trained me said to never do it, so I didn't and honestly, I never needed it. Once you heat the bolt and allow it to cool (cooling is as important as the heating) it will generally back right out. When I say heat, I don't mean just get it warm either, I mean it needs to get hot! Then let it cool, the metals expand at different rates as the part it is threaded into is not having heat applied directly to it. The expansion of the bolt and then the contraction as it cools breaks the bond, whatever it may be, short of it being welded in there. We took in a couple of motors and sets of heads each day. About every one we took in had something broken off or "stuck" in it (water drain plugs for instance) and this always worked. I would hate to guess how many things I removed this way, but the key is being able to heat the broken bolt and not the surrounding area.

Good luck.

 

[Diesel JD]

That's the tricky part for sure. I'm going to have to put this to work sometime on an old OMC outboard with the motor mount bolts. How do you heat a bolt and keep the heat on the block or whatever its screwed into to a minimum...what are the tricks?

 

[sle2115]

Each situation is different, but a wet rag will help. In a block, if you just apply the heat to the bolt and heat it quickly, the bolt will heat much faster than the larger block it is threaded into. All a matter of phsyics and taking longer to heat a larger object. Now, if you are talking minimal paint damage and such, if you have say an inch of bolt hanging out, the heat the very end of the bolt, farthest away from the area you don't want damaged. If the bolt is against something, like they are when tightened, get a rag VERY wet and put it around the head of the bolt and heat it as quick as you can, then take the heat away. You can do it a few times if need be, just heat, let it cool (doesn't have to be like ambiant temp, but not red hot, NEVER RED HOT as it will often bring the threads with it) and try to break it loose. Sometimes, tightening will help as well, just turn it a little tighter, and then remove. The point is to break the "bond" that is holding them. In our drag cars, we had Hi Strength loctite on about every bolt, so you had to heat most to get them loose, had quite a bit of practice...

 

[ttman4]

You can use a mig but I prefer a stick welder to weld the nuts on. I have found they put alot more heat into the remains of the bolt

Sometimes using a stick & setting it where it'll stick instead of arc will throw some heat into things.....weld the nut on alright, but also let it stick & heat up can put heat into things.
Like sle2115 said, every situation is different & heat does the trick, expansion & contraction breaks the bond.
Sometimes for other applications heating surrounding metal is what needed.

 

[92F350CC]

Well, i still haven't gotten a chance to look at it in person, but the old man says he got the pump off, but the bolts still aren't coming out. I assume from his description they are sticking out, as he tried to heat them up but he could never get them hot enough to come out. He's getting really frustrated now, and so am I, because without this truck, we will quickly be in the flat ass broke situation. He says that the housing for the water pump cracked in the process of removing the pump(this was before he used heat on the bolts). I wonder now if there's anything we can do. We're not too sure on the reverse bit thing, since that requires you to drill straight, and he is getting a little older now, and isn't too sure of himself, and i don't really know too much about what I'm doing, even if i could get the time to go work on it. I think we're just going to have the POS towed off to the junkyard now. It's worthless.

 

[forcefed]

I agree with welding a nut to it. Like said above take a larger nut and if you have a wire feed turn it up on high heat and fill the inside of the nut and let cool till the red is gone and should come out. I have removed alot of broken bolts that way.