No hot start

[Diesel JD]

Trust Bill he's being modest about his knowledge of mechanical stuff and IDIs in particular. If you're short on cash and a bit of a betting man, you may well extend the life of that pump till you can spend the money. The thicker fuels like waste motor oil, veggie oil, and to some degree biodiesel and ATF may get you the time you need to save up the cash. Now I'm not knocking Mel or his service to the IDI community. If you have the engine to support it and the cash, by all means get the Moose Pump and Moose Misters, and have Bill put that timing at 8.5-9.7 for you and you'll be very pleased. I just thought yiu were cash strapped and wanted to save some money in which case it's easier to fight injector problems that a pump. An injector is just a nozzle and probably a lot of handy guys here could rebuild them given access to shims and adequate cleaning. A pump on the other hand should be a precision piece of equipment. If it's not built to the exacting standards of Mel's guy or someone else with similarly a lot of knowledge and skill who cares if they give a good service life, you may get lucky and get a pump that lasts 300K miles, or it might die soon after you install or worst of all, you could be like me and have it dump fuel in your crankcase after about 30,000 miles...long enough to be completely out of warranty, short enough to make you feel sick about it.
On edit: I see you are N/A in that case buy a Baby Moose pump. Not sure if the Moose Misters are going to work well with a N/A engine but they probably aren't going to hurt it in the slightest. Another thing...when disassembling injectors you need to have a pop tester and sense enough to keep all body parts away for the high pressure diesel stream. Gloves and safety glasses are a good idea too.

 

[A_G]

I am cash strapped, but lets just say i worked for a company, my checked bounced and they flopped and it was a sole propietor company and my check should be arriving here shortly (hopefully, i mean they sold his plane, bentley, several other exotics, house in bahamas and breckinridge CO)

And yes im a completly IDI noob, or newb or f-n newb. HA HA, but id like to learn as much as i can.

And yes bill is very modest, Bout idi's and much more. hes pretty funny to.

Its been awhile since i used a pop tester (since school) the testing fluid smells like aspargus or something like that lol. Been awhile since i timed a mechanical injection pump, the way i learned was the drip timing, did it on a JD engine..really sucked lol.

Bill a shop with ac man thats unheard of lol..might spoil me lol...hell i never worked in a shop with concrete until i moved back to oklahoma lol

This is what i used to do, work on the big dumptrucks, and thats my service truck right there, it was -35 f with a -50 windchill that night.

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give ya better idea on how big, my co-worker william, hes 6 foot 6 like me

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Why was our uniforms white, at a coal min is beyond me......

So yea bill im gonna try to be by sometime on thursday to try to help ya with w/e i can, im kinda a firm believe in horse trading.

I got plenty of used motor oil laying around here i can use

Anthony

 

[Diesel JD]

IDI timing is really easy. I'm guessing Bill has the Ferret or either the Snap-On MT257. Worst part is adjusting it with the engine running is too risky so you might have to loosen and tighten those awful bolts on the gear flange more than once. I usually remove teh fast idle solenoid to give me a couple more inches of wiggle room. Honestly the best thing for this truck is probably to drive it a lot and drive it hard with the thicker fuel and or fuel additives in it. It may just bounce back.

 

[Black dawg]

on pumps with the classic heat soak issue, I run a wire thats hot in the crank position to the cold advance sol. It will make them start, and will get a few more years out of the pump. Ive done this several times and it always works.

 

[oldmisterbill]

Tony I have a thought. I have a pump that was in my old engine -been sitting since 2005 .We could try it (I've seen deisels sit for years & fire right up) we have nothing to loose but a little time.In our case "time is on our side" (hmm lets see how many of you remember that song)-lets date a few of you guys come on fess up to your age .
And no I won't sing it for you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Agnem]

Just to clarify, and a little more info on the heat soak issue. All pumps get heat soaked. When your running, you have diesel fuel flowing through the pump cooling and lubricating it. When you shut down, the fuel heats up, as do all the pump parts due to radiant heat from the engine and radiator. All the parts should expand and contract at an equal rate, so tolerances pretty much stay in check. Unfortunately, in the first 20 minutes of soaking, the outsides are expanding faster than the insides do. As those who were at the recent IDI Weekend can attest, when I did the full pump break down, we passed around the rotor and head, and everybody got to see just how precise the clearances are in there. Fuel has to flow under high presure from the plunger chamber to the stationary distributor head and it does this by passing through a very fine gap between the rotor and head. If this gap gets too big, the fuel can go into 'space' instead of into the injection line. A lack of fuel lubrication can cause these two parts to wear increasing the space between them. A poorly done rebuild may allow these parts to be re-used, accelerating the time between an acceptable gap, and one that is too big. A pump living on the edge as it were, may run fine all the time except during that 20 minute period, where the insides are trying to catch up to the outsides. Technically, energizing the cold timing advance affects the internal fuel presure, and moves the timing ring so depending on where the wear is, this could affect the outcome, but there is no guarantee. A pump suffering these effects can restart right away, because the heat hasn't 'soaked' in yet. But once things start to expand at different rates, it can be a no-go until the parts catch up to each other. A pump doing this will get progressively worse, until eventually it just won't work at all. Thickening the fuel can compensate for a brief period, but it's just smart to change out the pump when it is convenient. There is never a convienent time to find yourself stranded somewhere.

 

[Diesel JD]

You're right Mel eventually they just die. The Lord was merciful to me that mine died right in the driveway the last time.

 

[oldmisterbill]

Just to clarify, and a little more info on the heat soak issue. All pumps get heat soaked. When your running, you have diesel fuel flowing through the pump cooling and lubricating it. When you shut down, the fuel heats up, as do all the pump parts due to radiant heat from the engine and radiator. All the parts should expand and contract at an equal rate, so tolerances pretty much stay in check. Unfortunately, in the first 20 minutes of soaking, the outsides are expanding faster than the insides do. As those who were at the recent IDI Weekend can attest, when I did the full pump break down, we passed around the rotor and head, and everybody got to see just how precise the clearances are in there. Fuel has to flow under high presure from the plunger chamber to the stationary distributor head and it does this by passing through a very fine gap between the rotor and head. If this gap gets too big, the fuel can go into 'space' instead of into the injection line. A lack of fuel lubrication can cause these two parts to wear increasing the space between them. A poorly done rebuild may allow these parts to be re-used, accelerating the time between an acceptable gap, and one that is too big. A pump living on the edge as it were, may run fine all the time except during that 20 minute period, where the insides are trying to catch up to the outsides. Technically, energizing the cold timing advance affects the internal fuel presure, and moves the timing ring so depending on where the wear is, this could affect the outcome, but there is no guarantee. A pump suffering these effects can restart right away, because the heat hasn't 'soaked' in yet. But once things start to expand at different rates, it can be a no-go until the parts catch up to each other. A pump doing this will get progressively worse, until eventually it just won't work at all. Thickening the fuel can compensate for a brief period, but it's just smart to change out the pump when it is convenient. There is never a convienent time to find yourself stranded somewhere.

Nice job Mel great info!!! I need to put that in my mental blocks. ***
Ohoh can't find them!

 

[A_G]

i was just thinking about this.

since the outside of the pump is hotter than the inside causing the very exact tolerances of the inside working parts to be off just enough to allow fuel to flow around instead of through.

I wonder if there would be a way to make the outside of the pump as cool as the inside.
Maybe not the exact same tempature but fairly close to reduce the heat soak issue, that according to mel happens no matter what to varying degrees (right?) . some sort o heat sink on it somewhere. Your never going to get the fuel to near ambient tempature, obviously fuel returning from engine (there is a return line right) is going to be warmer than fuel thats been sitting int he tank.

Probably a wild outlandish thought but owell.

Btw its not just IDIs that do this, internation DT466s with electronic HEUI system, they have a "Rail" that runs over the injectors thats filled with motor oil, the nozzles or outlets w.e you wanna call em, are about a dime in size, wrapped with an oring and a teflon "spacer" (the spacers are BS when you used a caliper on them they are all the same size) anyways waht happens is, it will start just fine, until its hot then it will not restart until cooler. Basically one of the orings has a slight tear or just not sealing right, metal expands and oil flows around the inlet instead of through it, causing the injectors not to throw. Long story short its like a 28 dollar "kit" and is a real stupid fix, so its not just IDis similar issue.

Thanks mel, im gonna print that out and throw it in my little book...

Bill i have not had this issue come up again yet, but ill give you a call some time after 2 today and see whats goin on.

Anthony