No hot start

[oldmisterbill]

I got a call today -interesting from a newer member. His engine won't restart after setting 1/2 hr or so after being run at normal running temp. AIt will start right up after it sets 1/2 to 3/4 hr. He says he hears the FSV click-and cold it starts great - also after setting fires up perfectly. I told him to check fuel pressure at the filter outlet when it fails to start,while looking for air from the scrader valve. I also suggested for giggles run some howes (he doesn't use any additives)I was thnking maybe sticky valve under pump cover.
I'm not the best at remote diagnosing - any ideas?

 

[david85]

Could be a worn out injector pump. In theory it could also be the FSS. Electical resistance increases with temperature so if the coil solenoid is weak in THEORY, that could be a problem that gets worse enough at operating temperature to prevent ignition pressure. Although I'm just thinking out loud here and I don't know if this ever happens in the real world.

Maybe a gentile tap with a hammer would knock it loose if that were the problem. Did he check to hear that click when the engine is hot?

 

[Dsl_Dog_Treat]

Sounds like a typical heat soak worn out IP problem. Some water poured over the hydraulic head on the IP when experiencing the problem will cool the head to shrink it enough to allow the fuel to be pushed thru the plungers instead of going around them will get it going again. But be forewarned this is a last ditch effort and may finish off the pump.
Sounds like its time for a new ip

 

[Diesel JD]

I've had a few of those heat soak pumps. Usually lukewarm(not cold please!) water will get few or a lot more starts out of it. The only long term solution is a new pump. It stinks.

 

[Agnem]

I concur. Typical heat soak issue. Have him take a 12 oz soda can filled with room temp water and pour it over the part where all the IP lines connect. Wait 30 seconds and try to start it. If it fires right off, it's new pump time.

 

[icanfixall]

I too agree with what Mel has posted above. Others have posted about the same idea. How many miles are on the pump and fuel system Bill???

 

[Diesel JD]

Mine were on poorly rebuilt stock pumps. It seems to be a common issue with a less than stellar build and on pumps with scads of miles I mean like 200K or more. I don't know what some here do about the DB pumps this is just by observing the boards, it seems like it's always a high mileage pump or a nearly new rebuild that didn't cut the mustrad for whatever reason.

 

[dyoung14]

My truck done the same thing before the clutch came out. sometimes it would take 30 seconds to restart sometimes it would take 5 minutes and fuel pressure wasnt the issue i got 12psi of that stuff

 

[oldmisterbill]

I had told him to try the water trick .But the fact that it would start when hot if started right back up was concerning me.I never had that pump problem & didn't know the intimate details. (intimate)!!! I always have love on my old mind
I also thought about the possibility of a sticky FSV -especially since he doesn't use any additive (HE does now !! gave him h**l) . Ha called today said it runs a lot better with Howes and a little ATF.

I have always used ATF if I felt I had a sticky problem in a pump,then return to motor oil & howes.

 

[dyoung14]

I had told him to try the water trick .But the fact that it would start when hot if started right back up was concerning me.I never had that pump problem & didn't know the intimate details. (intimate)!!! I always have love on my old mind
I also thought about the possibility of a sticky FSV -especially since he doesn't use any additive (HE does now !! gave him h**l) . Ha called today said it runs a lot better with Howes and a little ATF.

I have always used ATF if I felt I had a sticky problem in a pump,then return to motor oil & howes.

Mines the exact same way, shut it off fires right back off, shut it off take a shower change clothes come back to go to work that day wont start i use to use fuel aditive like mad, but since i have just barley had enough money for fuel i havent been able to add, did i mention my truck is going to get returned back to stock form

 

[A_G]

Alright like i told ya on the phone thatd id go out to my buddys id let it cool off and check it, when i got back to it 30 mins later it had cooled down pretty far (it was raining and cooler outside) fired right up, 8 secs on the glow plug button.

This issue only comes up once every few weeks, usually when it hot outside, i need to be somewhere, or i dont wanna be where im at anymore.

I was thinking it was an issue with the gpc, where the truck would be warm enough to not throw the glow plugs but not warm enough to fire it off. So i did push button.

I though i had it fixed, but apparently not.

I was inside maybe 45 mins, came back out, fired glow plugs for about 8 secs, gave it about half throttle and turn her over, it stumbled like it was going to start and then straight back to cranking. tried the glow plugs and cranking a few more times but my batterys suck, didnt need to be going dead that day lol, i was on a date and already embarassed by sending her with her friends....told em id catch up

talked to bill there for about 45 mins, and tried cranking it and firing whil ei was on the phone, nothing, so i got out and puffed a bit ether in there and kicked right off, last resort i had somewhere to be.

When down the rd to napa got the howes and i already had some ATF in the back, drove 65 miles to tulsa a little bit of a haze behind me, got up there sitting at a stop light i noticed it idling quieter, seemed to run a bit better

As far as not adding any additives, im a newer diesel guy, the only mechanicls ive worked on where little JDs and Kubota engines in light plants and IR air compressor trailers, and no its not cause i cant plug in a pc, but i guess im used to it being a HEUI system porblem.

as far as a heat soaked pump goes, what do i look for maybe pressures i could test for? How?

If it does end up being the issue, what am i looking at as far as replacements go?

 

[1994IDI]

I think the pump is a likely candidate, but have you tried just replacing the fuel filter. If you haven't gave truck a new one, it's probably due.

 

[Diesel JD]

Man sorry that's your intro to the IDI world, really, they have a lot better to offer than this. Try what Bill said using your fuel additive, and ATF, maybe your lucky and it's just a sticky metering valve that can be unstuck. Unfortunately it's likely it will eventually bite the dust. At that point your best bet is to get a high quality stock pump if you're N/A, check with the ADS or Stanadyne website or maybe Bill knows somebody good locally, otherwise talk to Mel about a Baby Moose. You don't need a "hot" pump unless you have a turbo. You could roll the dice with somebody like Pensacola Diesel, their prices are awesome, but you sure won't get the same attention to detail and care that you'd get from agnem. It's all down to what you're nudget allows, how much you like the truck and want to keep it long term, and if you have the time to be swapping pumps should one commit suicide under warranty. Just avoid the sellers in the OB Hall of Shame and be very suspicious of any builder that says they can sell you a quality rebuild for less than $350-400+ core charges. For something like a Moose or Baby Moose it's going to depend on how bad the core you send Mel is. I can't speak for him on price, it ain't gonna be cheap, labor is a flat rate and then you pay for whatever parts it needs. I don't think anyone has gotten out cheaper than 500 and never heard of anyone getting into the 4 figures either. Really on pricing you need to ask him for an estimate which again varies with your pump condition. In all honesty for a pump I would probably only deal with a trusted member here like Mel or Russ, but if I had access to a pop tester I would shamelessly buy the cheap P-cola BB remans.

 

[A_G]

well honestly after reading up a bunch of reviews on the moose pumps and injectors i was planing on getting a set of his injectors when stuff starts picking up round here, then a turbo, then a moose pump

I know some people out at international (used to work there) im surei could get a good pump with a warranty from them, but id wanna make sure it was the pump.

As far as how much i like the truck?
Its my DD, i love it. Not as much as my silver truck (my first driving vehicle)

as far as an intro into IDIs im not scared ive had worse problems.
Try having constant wheel bearing failures (3-6 months have one side grenade) because of PO fix on the spindle, constant ground issues because of where i live and having to boat the thing to get to work. (my fault it wont start right now lol, not the idi) 3 transmissions because i didnt have a heavy duty enough truck. (towing to heavy loads, just spent 1600 on a new trans, less than a 1k miles and it slips oo im pissed )
IN the last year i spent more replacing parts on my 96 then i bought this 91 for.

So im not discouraged, its just a challenge, but just like my silver truck, i need to nip this one in the bud because right now (f$*#( silver truck is down) i dont have nother vehicle. So a break down is a huge issue for me

So i can get it in writing for future reference how do i check (possibly clean with out complete disassemble) metering valve?

 

[oldmisterbill]

First of all -Guys we have a good NOOB here-I have talked a bit to him and like him a lot - nice guy.
Tony - as I said my shop & tools are available to U as well as my limited knowledge (a little but not a lot). I also had great news today my pulse timing adaptor works fine and will be available to all members near me here in OK,especiallyt you. We can get toghter and see what we can figure out whne ever you like. My shop has AC and I don't do well outside in the heat. I have some thoughts so we will see where we can go.