mel-
I can help
but it's going to cost you a sampler case from this place......
http://www.yuengling.com/index.htm
Night Moose CARNAGE!!!!
- Thread starter Agnem
- Start date
I can help
but it's going to cost you a sampler case from this place......
http://www.yuengling.com/index.htm
6.9poweredscout
Bleeds IH red...
Mmmm yuengling.... that reminds me, better pickup a case to restock the fridge at the garage!!
-Jon
-Jon
mel-
I can help
but it's going to cost you a sampler case from this place......
http://www.yuengling.com/index.htm
Are you sure? You might be sorry... I don't think you can get that stuff where you live, and if I get you hooked on it, it's gonna cost you more in the long run.
But yes, I'd be happy to fix you up. Will we be drinking it together next year, or will you want it shipped?
shippedAre you sure? You might be sorry... I don't think you can get that stuff where you live, and if I get you hooked on it, it's gonna cost you more in the long run.
my adopted mom brings me a case when she goes to see family back in Altoona.
nah.Ah see...your already hooked then.Dang Calvin, you want like $40 for a few bolts? I'll have to wrap each bottle.
I'll settle for the beer
THECACKLER
Full Access Member
From the 1989 TSM... 47 foot pounds with thread locker. I lightly oil the thrust surface under the head as you mentioned, and torque them to 49.
The bolts are torqued to a specific value to stretch the bolt like a screen door spring, This is to provide Clamp Force to in turn produce sufficient friction to keep the Flywheel from moving and loosening the bolts.
IMHO I think the attachment of the flywheel to crankshaft is somewhat deficient on these engines. Personally, I would like to add a few dowel pins but what works, works, usually....
Ditto on Calvin's Question, with the addition of "What does your Clutch Disc look like" with regards to spring count.
The bolts are torqued to a specific value to stretch the bolt like a screen door spring, This is to provide Clamp Force to in turn produce sufficient friction to keep the Flywheel from moving and loosening the bolts.
IMHO I think the attachment of the flywheel to crankshaft is somewhat deficient on these engines. Personally, I would like to add a few dowel pins but what works, works, usually....
Ditto on Calvin's Question, with the addition of "What does your Clutch Disc look like" with regards to spring count.
Freight_Train
Traitor to the brotherhood
I betcha that was a cascade failure.One let go or backed out and the next one couldn't hold and so forth.Stuff happens.Brand new bolts can fail right out of the gate.Wonder if Rolled thread(vs Cut thread) grade 8 bolts would be better?
as far as i know all threads are rolled and heat treated. the threads are rolled between to plates to create the threading. cutting threads is far weaker. i have actually been doing some research on thread torquing for a project i am working on and found it interesting that according to my machinist handbook using a torque wrench is not all that much more accurite that torque by feel.
by feel +/-35%
torque wrench +/-25%
turn-of-nut +/-15%
preload indicating washer +/-10%
strain gages +/-1%
page 1404 in the 25 edition of the machinest handbook.
just some fun facts on thread torque an accuracy, on a side note clean threads and with/without lubrication can affect the torque signifacantly so it is important to follow what is recommended. adding lubrication could "possibly" reduce the friction enough to stress the bolt past its yield point with the extra tension that can be placed on it, after that its a time bomb.
i have some spread sheets that i can play with giving the mechanical advantage of threads so you can calculate clamping force and see where you exceed the yeild point of a thread cross-section.
by feel +/-35%
torque wrench +/-25%
turn-of-nut +/-15%
preload indicating washer +/-10%
strain gages +/-1%
page 1404 in the 25 edition of the machinest handbook.
just some fun facts on thread torque an accuracy, on a side note clean threads and with/without lubrication can affect the torque signifacantly so it is important to follow what is recommended. adding lubrication could "possibly" reduce the friction enough to stress the bolt past its yield point with the extra tension that can be placed on it, after that its a time bomb.
i have some spread sheets that i can play with giving the mechanical advantage of threads so you can calculate clamping force and see where you exceed the yeild point of a thread cross-section.
junk
Full Access Member
JRED that's interesting I'm grabbing my machinery handbook right now. We torque stuff using torque wrenches all day here at work. Thanks.
When I put my T-19 behind my 7.3 I used the original bolts from the 6.9 with no problems so far. I put thread locker on them like it said when i put my reman 7.3. Makes me think I should check those just to be certain. I've ran like this for 70,000 + miles.
Interesting....
When I put my T-19 behind my 7.3 I used the original bolts from the 6.9 with no problems so far. I put thread locker on them like it said when i put my reman 7.3. Makes me think I should check those just to be certain. I've ran like this for 70,000 + miles.
Interesting....
G. Mann
Full Access Member
On the subject of torque and thread failure. I spent much of my life working on jet engines where a failure of critical bolts in the rotating group would cause millions of dollars of damage and death, so a lot of attention was paid to being exactly accurate.
RPM typically ran in the 40,000 to 90,000RPM range and EGT of the rotating group could be in the 3600 degree range.
All that said, for the main rotating spool we typically used one very expensive bolt shaft that was tightened hand tight only, after being tensioned with a hydraulic fixture and a dial gage that measured the length of the shaft before and after tension. The fixture tensioned the bolt shaft at 20,000 lbs. [different for various engines of course] and there was a strict limit on how many times that bolt could be tensioned in it's entire life time. Threads were ALWAYS Xrayed before reuse to detect cracks and in almost every case where a crack was found on these VERY expensive bolts,,, it was in the thread form due to the stress risers imparted into the metal in forming the threads.
If you want to be exact on how much stress you are putting on a bolt with a torque wrench,, measure length before and after tension.
Loctite or any other brand of thread lock doesn't do anything for torque... it's function is to stop the nut or bolt from backing off the torque given. Dirty nuts and bolts will not give a true torque reading. Clean and dry , or clean and lightly lubed gives you a better shot at making your number. If you want to be exact, anything on the bolt/nut changes the actual tension vs torque indication.
The good news is, this ain't brain surgery and nobody dies from falling out of the sky. The bad news is,,, it comes out of our pocket when it breaks.
It's my opinion that the "Lucky Mod" puts bolts in a position where they are placed at or near their failure limits not from torque on the nut, but load from the flywheel forces that are added to the torque load with every piston stroke "shock". That's why the DMF springs fail after use,,, and defeating the DMF with solid bolts gives the hammer of the diesel power shock no where to run.
RPM typically ran in the 40,000 to 90,000RPM range and EGT of the rotating group could be in the 3600 degree range.
All that said, for the main rotating spool we typically used one very expensive bolt shaft that was tightened hand tight only, after being tensioned with a hydraulic fixture and a dial gage that measured the length of the shaft before and after tension. The fixture tensioned the bolt shaft at 20,000 lbs. [different for various engines of course] and there was a strict limit on how many times that bolt could be tensioned in it's entire life time. Threads were ALWAYS Xrayed before reuse to detect cracks and in almost every case where a crack was found on these VERY expensive bolts,,, it was in the thread form due to the stress risers imparted into the metal in forming the threads.
If you want to be exact on how much stress you are putting on a bolt with a torque wrench,, measure length before and after tension.
Loctite or any other brand of thread lock doesn't do anything for torque... it's function is to stop the nut or bolt from backing off the torque given. Dirty nuts and bolts will not give a true torque reading. Clean and dry , or clean and lightly lubed gives you a better shot at making your number. If you want to be exact, anything on the bolt/nut changes the actual tension vs torque indication.
The good news is, this ain't brain surgery and nobody dies from falling out of the sky. The bad news is,,, it comes out of our pocket when it breaks.
It's my opinion that the "Lucky Mod" puts bolts in a position where they are placed at or near their failure limits not from torque on the nut, but load from the flywheel forces that are added to the torque load with every piston stroke "shock". That's why the DMF springs fail after use,,, and defeating the DMF with solid bolts gives the hammer of the diesel power shock no where to run.
SparkandFire
We're drinking beer
When I worked in the jet shop at United, I remember alot of the bolts were torqued with a strain gauge/rotation meter setup.
Basically the torque wrench had a strain gauge in the head that fed back to the computer the amount of torque that was being applied to the bolt. Above the strain gauge there was a extremely fine toothed gear and a optical laser sensor that counted the amount of teeth that went by. If there were any discrepancy between the strain gauge and the rotation detector, the bolts were pulled out and scrapped.
There were also some bolts that were streched hydraulically then had a jam nut you ran up until all the pressure was off the ram.
Agreed, when lives and money are on the line, obtaining an accurate torque becomes much more interesting.
Basically the torque wrench had a strain gauge in the head that fed back to the computer the amount of torque that was being applied to the bolt. Above the strain gauge there was a extremely fine toothed gear and a optical laser sensor that counted the amount of teeth that went by. If there were any discrepancy between the strain gauge and the rotation detector, the bolts were pulled out and scrapped.
There were also some bolts that were streched hydraulically then had a jam nut you ran up until all the pressure was off the ram.
Agreed, when lives and money are on the line, obtaining an accurate torque becomes much more interesting.
Geez! Strain guages? All those technicalities. My only strain gauge is how much my muscles hurt the next day. Like today after removing all 8 pistons that were rusted in my old 7.3 that sat for a year. 
david85
Full Access Member
Now I'm starting to think about this a little more. The ZF does have more rotating mass then the older T19. I wonder if ford encountered some crank bolt issues during testing and this might be one reason why they opted for a DMF??
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