New user intending to burn WMO WVO and anything else flammable.

[leswhitt]

i was just planning on re-routing my bypass to the inlet of my power steering pump to keep it all going through at once.

Do you think you'll need an accumulator to keep from getting too much back pressure in the bypass line?

If the pump is sucking all it can and you're looping the bypass back into the suction, it seems like it'll build up too much pressure in the bypass line. Is my line of thinking off?

 

[Josh Carmack]

leswhitt, the pump can't push more than it pulls, so you could remove the fuge from the picture and loop the full flow back to the suction side. to get more output than input you get into that pseudo science realm of over unity etc etc etc.

Subway, honestly It never occurred to me to do that, with that said, it still won't prevent the issue of clean oil always mixing with dirty oil.

With one of the multiple single pass systems available you can make it centrifuge one gallon per hour, or one gallon per minute. On top of that you can hold much more solids and water in the single pass fuges.
I have convinced myself it's the way to go, just have to go that way now.

 

[leswhitt]

leswhitt, the pump can't push more than it pulls, so you could remove the fuge from the picture and loop the full flow back to the suction side. to get more output than input you get into that pseudo science realm of over unity etc etc etc.

Subway, honestly It never occurred to me to do that, with that said, it still won't prevent the issue of clean oil always mixing with dirty oil.

With one of the multiple single pass systems available you can make it centrifuge one gallon per hour, or one gallon per minute. On top of that you can hold much more solids and water in the single pass fuges.
I have convinced myself it's the way to go, just have to go that way now.

My mental picture was putting a tee in and pumping oil back into the suction line, under those circumstances I just can't see why it wouldn't back up. If my trash pump is running full tilt boogie sucking oil and then I add a tee into the suction line and pump more oil into the suction line, it seems like it could only pump so much and the "extra" oil would end up accumulating somewhere. That might be a logic failure on my own part, unless I run an experiment to see I think I'll be convince that it'll happen.

As for the single vs multi pass centrifuge, it sounds like you're already convinced that's the way to go but don't be enticed by the extra capacity. I've never filled up my rotor with sludge even after running 10+ passes on 250 gal+ so while it's nice to have, Irony think it's a feature that you'll actually use. With my multi-pass, it gets my oil clean enough that I can run a stock fuel filter past the maintenance interval and not see a drop in performance.

 

[Josh Carmack]

OK, look at it like this, suction line come from bottom of tank, only thing making it go into the pump is gravity. The pump can pump X GPM. The centrifuge takes 1GPM if you slightly over pressure it as I do. SO now your overflow is pumping out X-1 GPM. The suction line is flowing X GPM from the tank bottom. T in the overflow and you get X-1GPM coming from overflow, and 1GPM being pulled from the tank bottom. you still get X GPM total flow. The only real difference is where you are getting suction oil from. A large portion of the oil is simply getting recirculated. It's impossible to make the pump push out more than it takes in so the looped flow would simply circulate and only pull enough oil from the tank to recover what is lost out the fuge. Only way to make any kind of over pressure is to remove the fuge from the picture, put a check valve on the tank bottom, and wait for thermal expansion to cause the oil to expand enough to cause problems. Even if you have a check valve at tank bottom, you still won't over pressure the suction as in the above example you are losing 1GPM to the fuge.

That overflow loop system is often used on veg cars as it doesn't require near as much heat input to the fuel supply going to the IP. Instead of having to heat the entire flow going to the IP, that system only heats the new oil coming in to replace what was lost going into the engine, and all excess pump flow is simply routed back to pump suction.

I suffer/benefit from a mild/moderate form of Aspergers Syndrome, so the mechanical/physical realm for me comes natural. Sorry if my way of explaining only throws you off more.

 

[leswhitt]

Josh,
I think we're agreeing with each other, it's probably my failure of not choosing my words better that's causing the mixup. Since I do better through visuals, I made a highly defined & scale drawing on MS Paint (yeah, not really) that'll hopefully explain it better than I can.

Anyway, the picture is showing 2 setups, one routed back to the tank and one routed into the suction line. In the second version, if the pump is maxing out at 1 GPM and you're routing 1/4 gallon per minute back into the suction line, and figuring on a perfect world where the pump doesn't deviate from 1 GPM, then the oil in the recirculating line will back up into the bypass. Eventually, it'll backup to the point that it's just a loop of oil with nowhere to go. Since the pump can only pump 1 GPM, that oil will just sit there with no where to go. If you pump it back to the tank it'll eventually get back to the suction line but in that case (Vers 1) the pump is what's acting as the expansion tank.

Or are you saying that the pump will automatically compensate for the return line and suck 1/4 GPM less from the tank to account for the 1/4 GPM that's being recirculated to the suction line? I guess I could see that happening if the suction was equal for both lines and the lines were also the same size...

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[058hammer]

It's the same to the pump if it's Teed or goes back to the tank.

 

[blue67chero]

Not to advocate or advertise for this company... But just an alternative to fuging. I've been running a blue grass fuels TF3000 system for the last two months with about 300 gallons of oil/diesel mix and had no issues whatsoever with the truck it actually runs quieter. Smokes a bit more, but you can change the percentage of oil you are using.
You all can check them out for yourself.

http://www.bluegrassfuel.net/

 

[leswhitt]

Not to advocate or advertise for this company... But just an alternative to fuging. I've been running a blue grass fuels TF3000 system for the last two months with about 300 gallons of oil/diesel mix and had no issues whatsoever with the truck it actually runs quieter. Smokes a bit more, but you can change the percentage of oil you are using.
You all can check them out for yourself.

http://www.bluegrassfuel.net/

$1350 is a rough price point, for the materials used it seems like that oughta be much cheaper. For the proven science behind a centrifuge, I'd recommend that over a system that appears to be a pump sprayer and a whole house water filter, ESPECIALLY since a centrifuge setup can process quite a bit more than 26 gallons at a time.

I'm not disputing that it works since I've never messed with one of those but I'd be interested to see a head to head test in which a centrifuge and the TF clean samples from the same batch of dirty oil.

 

[Josh Carmack]

No thanks 1300$$$??

I got around 500 invested in mine, made that money back the first month i ran oil. Plan on adding a single pass fuge to my setup next spring, til then I'm perfectly happy with what I am doing, running 90/10 oil in one tank, and
the 90/10 cut with 50% dsl in the other tank. On the next fill up I will have saved enough money to add a 100 gal bed tank to the setup, and go back to pump dsl on the stock tanks in case the DOT decides to have a look in my tanks.

 

[leswhitt]

On the next fill up I will have saved enough money to add a 100 gal bed tank to the setup, and go back to pump dsl on the stock tanks in case the DOT decides to have a look in my tanks.

FWIW, I've had this conversation with a DOT officer and her take was that if we're not running commercial, and not making huge clouds of smoke, they (not official policy but the officers themselves) could care less about guys running WMO. She's an experienced officer with 15+ years and has never written, or heard of, anyone being written up for running WMO. The folks she's encountered that run it give the generic answer of "just a splash" or something similar when they're asked how much is in the tank.

Regarding off road diesel and dye, she also stated that they're experienced enough to know the difference between the red tint of ATF (for the guys that run exclusively WATF) and the dye of off-road diesel. In the odd call case they're unsure, they can lab test the sample to determine the presence of dye (over a legal PPM).

I've spoken with a few other officers and they reported the same, that if it runs clean, you don't look/behave like a greaseball, and your truck isn't falling apart around you, you'll be good to go.

 

[Blind Driver2]

Not to advocate or advertise for this company... But just an alternative to fuging. I've been running a blue grass fuels TF3000 system for the last two months with about 300 gallons of oil/diesel mix and had no issues whatsoever with the truck it actually runs quieter. Smokes a bit more, but you can change the percentage of oil you are using.
You all can check them out for yourself.

http://www.bluegrassfuel.net/

$1350 is a rough price point, for the materials used it seems like that oughta be much cheaper. For the proven science behind a centrifuge, I'd recommend that over a system that appears to be a pump sprayer and a whole house water filter, ESPECIALLY since a centrifuge setup can process quite a bit more than 26 gallons at a time.

I'm not disputing that it works since I've never messed with one of those but I'd be interested to see a head to head test in which a centrifuge and the TF clean samples from the same batch of dirty oil.

Yea, I'll think I'll stick with my WVO Designs 'fuge.

 

[blue67chero]

$1350 is a rough price point, for the materials used it seems like that oughta be much cheaper. For the proven science behind a centrifuge, I'd recommend that over a system that appears to be a pump sprayer and a whole house water filter, ESPECIALLY since a centrifuge setup can process quite a bit more than 26 gallons at a time.

I'm not disputing that it works since I've never messed with one of those but I'd be interested to see a head to head test in which a centrifuge and the TF clean samples from the same batch of dirty oil.

I do not disagree with you that it is kind of a PIA only making 26 gal at a time. however it is a small convenient system. Also I would be curious to run a sample from both out of the same batch of WMO. any body in Vegas running a centrifuge let me know and we can do a test. like I said just an alternative.

 

[AcIdBuRn02ZTS]

I havnt read all of this as of yet... but my plan for my fuge is to just plum the bypass back to the tank that I'm pulling from... that way only oil going through the fuge makes it into the drum.

It would be a one pass deal unless you let it run and then pump it to another barrel and go again doing it this way however.
-Chris

 

[Josh Carmack]

Yes, that is one pass, but the problem with a bypass type fuge in that setup is the time factor, the oil needs to move through the fuge slower to allow much more precipitate to fall out, but to be able to turn the fuge at the correct speed, it must be driven faster than desired, hence requiring several passes. With a motor driven fuge it can be feed into the fuge at any speed desired. My current method is to run several hours on a 45 gal load then move the fuge to a "Clean drum", and run it into the drum with the bypass dumping back into the fuge drum as normal. My humble opinion is a fuge of that diameter/size needs to be feed at a rate of about 1/4 GPM maybe a little less. In the long run replacing my PA fuge for a single pass will make me more comfortable running WMO.

 

[AcIdBuRn02ZTS]

If you come up with one at a decent price... do tell.

-Chris