New Flywheel + Starter Motor

sieg01

Registered User
Joined
Mar 24, 2020
Posts
88
Reaction score
29
Location
Finland
My Eco is in the need of a new starter motor and flywheel.

Which Starter Motor should be chosen?

BBB INDUSTRIES N16658
or
BBB INDUSTRIES N17037

or what do you suggest?

What pops up when browsing over the specs, then I can see different power ratings.
Why are they available/necessary for our motor?
How to choose the (right) one our engine needs?
We all know: consumption is not output power :)

As the Eco is driving with WVO (and I have a mechanical lift pump), often I am in the need of some extra power (I have 2 red Optima's + 1 x 180AH as "backup/support").

I had the Mitsubishi starters running for some year. In January I installed something that looks like a BBB INDUSTRIES N16658
But back then I did not replace the flywheel. Now I have to replace both, because the old flywheel is now broken and I suppose that the gear on the new motor isn't new anymore ;)

Oh yeah: What about new bolts? When looking @ this:
Then maybe I should get them too before the transmission is on the ground. Would RA have them?

Sorry for linking Rockauto - even they are not supporting the forum (for the moment).
 

Old Goat

Full Access Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2021
Posts
1,689
Reaction score
1,670
Location
Northern Nevada
I also have had good results with the Power Master 9050, been using it for 5 or more years.

www.russrepair.com has the new Fly Wheel bolts.
I bought a set from him a while back when I was installing the new Clutch. I think the 8 were around $40.


Goat
 

typ4

Supporting Member
Supporting Member
Joined
Dec 24, 2005
Posts
9,113
Reaction score
1,395
Location
Newberg,OR
I also have had good results with the Power Master 9050, been using it for 5 or more years.

www.russrepair.com has the new Fly Wheel bolts.
I bought a set from him a while back when I was installing the new Clutch. I think the 8 were around $40.


Goat
Flywheel bolts are for the single mass conversion FYI.
 

Old Goat

Full Access Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2021
Posts
1,689
Reaction score
1,670
Location
Northern Nevada
Well I do have the Garden Variety Fly Wheel with my T-19 Transmission. I guess you call it Single Mass, as it is the only kind of FW I have ever delt with all my years of trucking along.

You must be registered for see images attach


I replaced the Bolts because one was a Hard Ware Bolt, and no telling how they were torqued over the years before I bought her.


Goat
 

IDIBRONCO

IDIBRONCO
Joined
Feb 5, 2010
Posts
12,410
Reaction score
11,155
Location
edmond, ks
Well I do have the Garden Variety Fly Wheel with my T-19 Transmission. I guess you call it Single Mass,
Yes yours is a single mass, but the bolts that Russ sells are for a conversion flywheel for a ZF5. The ones that take the place of the factory dual mass flywheel. Since they are for a different application, they may be a different length than yours.
 

Old Goat

Full Access Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2021
Posts
1,689
Reaction score
1,670
Location
Northern Nevada
I needed FW Bolts and Russ had them.
I guess they work, been driving her the last few months.

Shouldn`t be much difference between the T-19 FW and the ZF one I would guess.
Iam sure I matched them to length to the old one`s.
I`ll got back in to see how Russ has them listed.

This LUk Clutch sure is a nice smooth one that`s for sure.

EDIT: Yep you are right, listed as
"Single mass Fly Wheel Bolts"


Goat
 
Last edited:

sieg01

Registered User
Joined
Mar 24, 2020
Posts
88
Reaction score
29
Location
Finland
Thanks for your "output".

Meanwhile I was doing some digging.

Looks like I am going to order/mount BBB INDUSTRIES N17037 again. It fitted best in and they were the most durable.
The PowerMaster 9050 looks fantastic - but I couldn't find it with Rockauto. (read bottom of this post to see why this is important to me).

Bolts:
"My mechanic" asked me to get new ones, because we re-used the old ones in 2019 when doing an engine swap.
But:
I was told by another mechanic (also driving an e350 idi n/t) that these bolts may not be "stretching" ones and it may be possible to use other e.g. 10.8 that fit - in case I would replace them.
This mechanic said, that for him it feels like American cars would very seldomly use "stretch bolts" while German cars are built exclusively with "one time bolts". LOL

He also explained me, why the flywheel is called Flexplate with our cars and why they crack. Now I know, that the flywheel is - like a windscreen or tires - subject to wear.
Means, that it is not wise to purchase the ring gear https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog...117886,transmission-automatic,ring+gear,10615
to repair my old flexplate.

I remember, that there are different Flexplates available.
Some look like this
You must be registered for see images attach


and some like this:

You must be registered for see images attach


or like this:
You must be registered for see images attach


So, when looking @ these 2 here:
https://www.rockauto.com/de/catalog...1117886,transmission-automatic,flexplate,8608

Which one to choose for our 1994 idi non turbo? The one with the 5 balancing holes or the one without them?

I am sorry to backlink to Rockauto :cry: but they are the only American retailers (in the car business) I know of, that offer SEPA (payment) option.
I'm an old school German and without plastic money. :)
 

IDIBRONCO

IDIBRONCO
Joined
Feb 5, 2010
Posts
12,410
Reaction score
11,155
Location
edmond, ks
U know that you can't use the top one. It's for a Powerstroke and won't git on a IDI. The Powerstrokes (7.3 anyway) had 10 bolts to hold the flywheel/flexplate to the crankshaft while the IDI had 9 bolts. As for the other two choices, I can't help you there.
 

hacked89

Full Access Member
Joined
May 30, 2018
Posts
1,805
Reaction score
2,418
Location
Bucks County PA
What exactly is your question and we can help? Things were mixed up because you were calling flexplates flywheels. Confirm the transmission you have? People can always swap things around better to ask. For readily available parts, you can use ATP Z344 with a crank spacer for a c6 or an ATP Z342 for an E4OD. If you have things apart it’s 4 stud tq converter vs 6. You mentioned what’s called torque to yield common in German suspension and chassis. I wouldn’t sweat that too much here. Just measure and replace your solution with a heat treated bolt like grade 8 with thread locker.
 

sieg01

Registered User
Joined
Mar 24, 2020
Posts
88
Reaction score
29
Location
Finland
What exactly is your question and we can help?

:sorry:

Things were mixed up because you were calling flexplates flywheels.

Yes.
In German "Schwungrad" means flywheel. So I just translated it 1:1 :)

After a friend explained me last week why it is not just a flywheel I understood why the term flexwheel is used and also the functionality and why it is subject to wear.

So what I need in propper Engish is the flexwheel.

Confirm the transmission you have?

E40D

People can always swap things around better to ask.

:thumbsup:

an ATP Z342 for an E4OD.

Now you are making me nervous.
Pls compare:

ATP Z342
vs
ATP Z344


If you have things apart it’s 4 stud tq converter vs 6.

C6 = 6
E40D = 4
?

You mentioned what’s called torque to yield common in German suspension and chassis. I wouldn’t sweat that too much here.

Great!
Does anyone have the specs of the screws. They are probably not metric.

Just measure and replace your solution with a heat treated bolt like grade 8 with thread locker.

Thanks!
 

hacked89

Full Access Member
Joined
May 30, 2018
Posts
1,805
Reaction score
2,418
Location
Bucks County PA
I see. The pics are wrong on rock auto.
I bought an ATP Z-342 once because it was listed as works for IDI C6/E4OD in a parts catalog inventory. This is what showed up.
You must be registered for see images attach


This definitely does not work for a C6 and it doesn’t have the right crank holes for an IDI like bronco said it’s 10. It also has six tq converter studs which a c6 has four. I was curious for someone to confirm whether an e4od has six or four stud converter? Someone on a facebook group told me e4od was six when we were talking about this awhile ago but starting to think they were incorrect.

Anyway so then I bought an ATP Z344 and used it with an e4od crank spacer on my c6 and all was well.

This is a pic of an ATP Z344 with a crank spacer on a c6.
You must be registered for see images attach


As i type this out and see the wrong pictures and descriptions on parts websites, I’m thinking that the ATP Z344 works on either the E4OD or C6.

Also this is an educated guess because I don’t run E4ODs but you asked about the difference between the pioneer flex plate and the atp344 flex plate with the five balancing holes. If you look at the build of the flex plates assuming correct pics for those links, one of them using 8 longer beads of weld and the other looks like it uses 9 shorter beads. They likely both work for the E4OD but one required holes for balancing it correctly.

To summarize - between the incorrect pictures on the parts websites and someone telling me an E4OD for an idi has 6 tq converter studs (which I’m now guessing is wrong) , I made a mistake telling you Z342 was E4OD based off that info. Your original option question with the Z344 looks to be correct. The pioneer would probably work too based off my balancing guess above. I also know from experience that the z344 works on a c6 with an E4OD crank spacer for anyone that stumbles across this thread.
 
Last edited:

IDIBRONCO

IDIBRONCO
Joined
Feb 5, 2010
Posts
12,410
Reaction score
11,155
Location
edmond, ks

sieg01

Registered User
Joined
Mar 24, 2020
Posts
88
Reaction score
29
Location
Finland
This starter is very good. I don't know if it's available to Finland.
I saw this starter with our Forum-Supporter Classic Diesel Design too:
https://classicdieseldesigns.com/products/pwm-3-6hp-6-9-7-3-upgraded-starter

For the moment I purchased a new Mitsubishi from BBB Industries N17037
and the ATP Z344 flexplate.

I expect it during next week to arrive.
 
Top