More Progress on the 6.9 Rebuild!

[Agnem]

Heath, where did you get that valley pan? That's the old style. I haven't seen a non-turbo valley pan in quite a while. The new style all have somewhat open ends on the baffle, so no hole punching is required.

 

[PwrSmoke]

I concur, Heath. You did a nice job, both with the engine and the images. I guess you won't know about the engine 'till you make smoke but it looked good ( : < ).

Gary and I talked about my heads when I was in the process but my main concern at the time was valve to piston interference. Wondered what you did.

My Feb '86 production truck (who knows about the engine) doesn't have plugs in the intake side coolant ports.

I've noticed that after the overhaul, the engine is quieter than before. Not as knocky. Timing is set in exactly the same place. I had my pump and injectors tested and nothing was needed there. Got rid of that little tick I had noticed for the last 10 years too, which was the rockers once I saw them.

I installed new pistons in the original bores (only about .001" taper). I could have reused the bearings but installed new standard shells, cam & oil pump- they all miked well within spec. The heads were the disaster area. I had to replace one oil cooler end... the filter end... only because I dropped it and dented the bore. A $200 case of dropitis ( : < ).

The hardest part for me was pulling and replacing the engine. Replacing mostly. I used the loader on my tractor. Never again! Dang thing had some creep. The 6.9L is a tight fit on a good day and has to go in just so. about the time you'd get it all lined up, the loader will have crept down a quarter inch. The other hard part was due to having pulled the engine almost two years before, Jigsaw puzzle!

Heath, I hope yours runs as good as mine does. Once I break in a little, I'll get it back on the dyno. Last time, at about 130K, it did 194 hp right before a '99 7.3L PSD did 203. Will be interesting to see if it changes now with better heads but everything else the same It will be on the same dyno too.

 

[hesutton]

Heath, where did you get that valley pan? That's the old style. I haven't seen a non-turbo valley pan in quite a while. The new style all have somewhat open ends on the baffle, so no hole punching is required.

Mel, it's a brand new Victor Rienz valley pan. There are small openings on the sides near the junction of the baffle and the base of the valley pan, and there were two small holes at the bottom of the baffel as well. But, that baffle can easily fill with oil with those small provisions for drainage. That thing can hold a good volume of oil before it can start to spill out near the top of the baffle where those open ends are. I just want to make sure the valley pan isn't going to be a source of problems down the road. The rear of that thing has an inadequate surface area to seal on the rear of the block (at least in my opinion). Heck, I even contemplated tapping the rear of the block to put bolts on there to hold the pan down. Not really enough space/room though.

I concur, Heath. You did a nice job, both with the engine and the images. I guess you won't know about the engine 'till you make smoke but it looked good ( : < )..........

Heath, I hope yours runs as good as mine does. Once I break in a little, I'll get it back on the dyno. Last time, at about 130K, it did 194 hp right before a '99 7.3L PSD did 203. Will be interesting to see if it changes now with better heads but everything else the same It will be on the same dyno too.

Thanks Jim. I certainly hope so. With the complete rebuild, balancing, "typ4" cam, and machine work, this thing had better run well or it's getting replaced by a inline IH diesel. I'm definately going to put it on the rollers at the Rally and see what the difference is.

Gary and I talked about my heads when I was in the process but my main concern at the time was valve to piston interference. Wondered what you did..

I used Mahle's reduced compression height pistons. After the deck was machined 7 thousands, used those as insurance to prevent the head/valves/pistons from kissing each other. The wrist pins are 10 thousands higher on the piston and thus, 10 thousands lower compression height. With a stock cylinder deck, the compression is lowered to 19.7:1.

Heath

 

[idiabuse]

With nothing left to purchase on my 7.3 I still have an issue with too high compression.
I am now looking at opening the combustion chamber intake and exhaust to add a few CCs to the final compression, I did this on a set of 6.9 heads I had but I never measured the difference.
I dont see any other solution to lower the compression on my build, I did see a thread on a .030 shim but nothing came from that...


Nice build on the 6.9 hope it makes more more than you expected


Javier

 

[rhkcommander]

With nothing left to purchase on my 7.3 I still have an issue with too high compression.
I am now looking at opening the combustion chamber intake and exhaust to add a few CCs to the final compression, I did this on a set of 6.9 heads I had but I never measured the difference.
I dont see any other solution to lower the compression on my build, I did see a thread on a .030 shim but nothing came from that...


Nice build on the 6.9 hope it makes more more than you expected


Javier

use bolts where the glowplugs go and use ether (i said it )?

 

[idiabuse]

I can fab up some type of intake heater too like the Cummings.
I do live in Miami I dont need plugs for most of the year. that is a good thought though, thanks for the time!



Javier

 

[PwrSmoke]

I used Mahle's reduced compression height pistons. After the deck was machined 7 thousands, used those as insurance to prevent the head/valves/pistons from kissing each other. The wrist pins are 10 thousands higher on the piston and thus, 10 thousands lower compression height. With a stock cylinder deck, the compression is lowered to 19.7:1.

Heath

Heath... yeah, I contemplated some 0.010" reduced compression height pistons. The one thing I kinda wished I'd done is deck the block. The head surfaces were really bad but the block was safely above the "gotta do it" threshhold... but it still nags me (I always regret most the things I don't do, especially when I agonized over it). The engine work was not intended as a full rebuild because, for the most part, other than the heads, everything else was in good shape.

 

[hesutton]

Jim, I've had several regrets along the way with this project. Most of them are machine shop related. I finally found a good one, but, it's over 2 hours away.

I plan on getting everything buttoned up on the engine I can this weekend while I wait for my Moose goodies.

I'm seriously looking at adding an intercooler to the mix as well. It should help with power and keep EGT's in check. Gotta find a intake hat that'll work well with the Banks turbo. Time to do some research on the subject.

Heath

 

[Dave Barbieri]

Heath -

Thanks for the info on your heads. Mine are at the machine shop now. I've been looking for the updated IDI(T) exhaust valves, but Sealed Power and others get kinda murky about 7.3 turbos. When I cross-checked, I found that the numbers given were actually Power Stroke part numbers. It's great to have part numbers that work!!

Pistons are the next hurdle. Mahle made a .010" reduced height piston for the 6.9 that was hard anodized crown - 224-3507THA. This sucker was beautiful! The crown looked almost polished and the skirts were black anodized. But that piston has been out of production since 4/2010. I've been searching, but no luck finding any sitting on a shelf gathering dust. What I've been able to find are destroked/reduced height pistons from Clevite (224-2190), but no special skirt coating or crown treatment. Looks like I'll have to send the pistons out to get the crowns ceramic coated and the skirts treated.

 

[PwrSmoke]

Heath -

Thanks for the info on your heads. Mine are at the machine shop now. I've been looking for the updated IDI(T) exhaust valves, but Sealed Power and others get kinda murky about 7.3 turbos. When I cross-checked, I found that the numbers given were actually Power Stroke part numbers. It's great to have part numbers that work!!

Pistons are the next hurdle. Mahle made a .010" reduced height piston for the 6.9 that was hard anodized crown - 224-3507THA. This sucker was beautiful! The crown looked almost polished and the skirts were black anodized. But that piston has been out of production since 4/2010. I've been searching, but no luck finding any sitting on a shelf gathering dust. What I've been able to find are destroked/reduced height pistons from Clevite (224-2190), but no special skirt coating or crown treatment. Looks like I'll have to send the pistons out to get the crowns ceramic coated and the skirts treated.

Federal Mogul (Sealed Power)also offers a 0.010" destroked piston, part number 2770PN. I am not clear if they use the coated skirts the standard compression height Sealed Power hypereutectic H729CP pistons have, but you can find out. I used the latter style in my recent overhaul and they looked peachy.

Also, I was told that the regular replacement valves Sealed Power (Federal Mogul) sell at the built to the original factory turbo spec. They are not the Inconel super-duper pieces Hypermax sells but they don't cost near as much.

 

[Dave Barbieri]

Thanks Jim! I looked at the hypereut's but there were no 'destroked' versions that I could find. To me, that would be a great combo. I had always understood that the higher silicon content in hypereutectics gave them added strength over cast pistons. Not as strong as forged, but definitely an improvement.

 

[hesutton]

Jim and Dave. The stellite faced exhaust valves are supposed to be the "bee's knees". They are touted as being equal/better performers to inconel exhaust valves and are much cheaper. They certainly should be better than the standard exhaust valves. The majority of my old exhaust valves had pitting on the face of the valve. Scarey stuff. Especially when I had only 2000 miles with the turbo on there.

There is a place in Wisconsin called Classic Coatings that will ceramic coat the piston crowns and moly the skirts for $30 a piston. That's much cheaper than other places I've seen. I didn't find that shop until after I balance/installed the pistons in my 6.9. Otherwise, I would have had them coat my pistons.

Heath

 

[Diesel JD]

So they do a chromoly coat on the skirts as well? Anything in WI is good for me, as I have lots of friends up there. An excuse could be made to go see the place in person if need be. $240 for all 8 pistons wouldn't be too bad. Heath, the IC sounds like a really good upgrade even for a mildly built IDI, ask Towcat or Typ4. Kinda wish I had done it.

 

[Dave Barbieri]

Jim and Dave. The stellite faced exhaust valves are supposed to be the "bee's knees". They are touted as being equal/better performers to inconel exhaust valves and are much cheaper. They certainly should be better than the standard exhaust valves. The majority of my old exhaust valves had pitting on the face of the valve. Scarey stuff. Especially when I had only 2000 miles with the turbo on there.

There is a place in Wisconsin called Classic Coatings that will ceramic coat the piston crowns and moly the skirts for $30 a piston. That's much cheaper than other places I've seen. I didn't find that shop until after I balance/installed the pistons in my 6.9. Otherwise, I would have had them coat my pistons.

Heath

Heath -

That's GREAT info! Swain Tech wants $45 - $50 per piston. Gotta tell ya, you do the math and body parts start to pucker. So you're talking about saving well over $100 right off the bat. My machinist wants the coating done before machining and balancing. That way each operation deals with the actual piston dimensions/weight. I'll start looking into Classic Coatings.

Since I've always wanted 'bees knees', I'll factor in the stellite valves. I plan to take in all the new head parts (valves, seals, springs, keepers, retainers) once I know that the block is OK.

My attitude is "Do this right the first time and be done." When you look at the engine you're building and at the mechanical improvements you're incorporating into the design, you're talking radically increased efficiency. That translates into more horsepower and better fuel economy at the same time. Frankly, Heath, that's a pretty damn good scenario to go into the future with.

 

[Dsl_Dog_Treat]

So they do a chromoly coat on the skirts as well? Anything in WI is good for me, as I have lots of friends up there. An excuse could be made to go see the place in person if need be. $240 for all 8 pistons wouldn't be too bad. Heath, the IC sounds like a really good upgrade even for a mildly built IDI, ask Towcat or Typ4. Kinda wish I had done it.

I spoke to one of their techs Thursday and was impressed with their process as Heath referred them to me last week. For $240 for a set of 8 pistons that get a ceramic coating on the crown and a moly coating on the skirts is a great price!

Now I just gotta find a suitable piston.