OK, so I was interested in comparing the tried and trusted (by me, anyway.) Holley Red to another vane type pump just in the interest of science and on the odd chance that another pump might actually be better. After asking around on the board, the Carter P4070 was mentioned, and because Carter probably makes most of the OEM fuel pumps for the big 3 as well as others, I thought it would make a logical choice. I ordered a P4070 from Jegs, and received it in 2 days. The price was $69.99, compared with Jegs price of $107.99 for a Holley Red. So the Carter was actually $38 cheaper.
My Holley Red was failing due to a brush contact issue. The pump still worked fine, but sometimes to get it to start, I would have to whack it with a broom handle to bounce the brushes. I was intrieged by the idea that the Carter pump is built upside down compared to the Holley Red, and the philosophy on pump design is completely opposite. While Holley tries to keep the motor dry, and above the pump chamber, the Carter has the motor under the pump chamber, and the motor is allowed to swim in whatever juices your pumping with it. Considering the wild cocktail of fuels that the Moosestang runs, this should be interesting.
Here we have the Holley with 40,000 miles on it on the left. The box for the new Carter is on the right.
Out of the box, the Carter has a lot more "stuff" associated with it. The Holley Red is esentially just the pump in the box, with the electrical leads permenently connected and no fittings. A rubber "gasket" is included to mount the pump to the vehicle. The Carter comes with a hardware bag that includes a bracket, rubber bushings, 6 nuts, 2 bolts, 6 washers 2 wire assemblies, and brass nipples for 3/8" hose.
Mounting - The Holley Red mounts easily with 2 bolts. Simply drill 2 holes, put the rubber gasket between the pump and the mounting surface and use 2 bolts to secure it. Mounting the Carter is much more involved. First, you must locate the bracket and mount it. Convienently, the distance between the mounting holes on the Holley and Carter are the same. This is great, because it means you can switch between both pumps without changing the way you mount them. Once the bracket is bolted to the frame, or whatever your mounting it to, you can insert the rubber bushings into 3 of the six holes provided. The extra holes and triangular mounting pattern allow you to mount the pump in 3 orientations, giving much more flexibility than the Holley. Once the bushing are installed, washers are put on the pump mounting studs, the studs are passed through the bushings, then small washers, locknuts, and nuts are put on. Given the mounting scheme and extra rubber I was expecting this pump to be really quiet.
Installation - Aside from the physical mounting, the nipples that come with the pump supposedly do not need any sealant. In fact, you are warned not to use teflon tape because this may crack the pump housing.
There are also multiple warnings that a pre-filter is required for this pump. I considered this, but since I am comparing the Holley and Carter for longevity, I did not want to change the quality of the fuel the pump would be receiving. Conseqently, the Carter is not being filtered any more than the Holley was. The Moosestang has a sock in the tank, AND the Ford in-tank lift pump feeding the Carter, so I felt there was sufficient filtration. Now, strickly speaking, the Holley Red DOES feature an intergal filter screen. I do not think the Carter has one. If the Carter meets an early demise, this will need to be considered, but IF a prefilter is really needed, then this will negate any cost advantages of the Carter.
Electrical - The Holley Red has clearly marked black and red wires for frame ground and hot respectively, that are permenently attached. The Carter has black only wires, with non-keyed contact studs that are identical. This means that the wires on the Carter are not secure, and could be pulled off by either an errant tree branch, or malicious pair of fingers. Once off, they could be easily reversed and the pump made to run backwards. This is a serious design flaw in my opinion. If you impliment this pump, be sure to label the connections clearly. Both pumps take 12 volts, and a nominal amount of current to run.
Operation - Given the mounting scheme, and the submersed nature of the Carter pump motor, I was shocked at how loud it was. It IS quieter than the Holley Red, but still it was easily heard, which in my case I consider this a blessing. If it had been virtually silent, I would not have been too happy, as I like a pump that tells me it is running. But for those who like to complain about the noise of the Holley, this pump will not make you that much happier. The Carter has fuel flow and presure characteristics that are right there with the Holley Red. The Carter flows 72 GPH and the Holley flows 97, flowing freely. At 5 PSI, the Carter does not have an advertised flow rate, but the Holley lists 67 GPH.
Summary - Only time will tell which pump will hold up better in my application. Unless the Carter outlasts the Holley by a wide margin, my guts still say the Holley is the better pump. It has more balls on paper, mounts easier, and features serviceable pump parts as well as an inlet screen built-in. The Carter has some quirky advantages - the electrical connections are both a curse and a blessing, but you won't have to add a plug or get out the wire snips to remove a Carter pump for replacement. The versatility in mounting may give it an edge over the Holley in some situations. Noise differences between the pumps in my opinion are not significant enough to warrant consideration in the purchasing decision. The Carter is significantly cheaper, so if longevity is equal it's clearly the price point leader. It was also made in USA. I am not sure about the Holley on that front.
The Carter P4070 pump ended up hanging a good bit lower than the Holley for my application, using the same mounting holes as the Holley Red.
My Holley Red was failing due to a brush contact issue. The pump still worked fine, but sometimes to get it to start, I would have to whack it with a broom handle to bounce the brushes. I was intrieged by the idea that the Carter pump is built upside down compared to the Holley Red, and the philosophy on pump design is completely opposite. While Holley tries to keep the motor dry, and above the pump chamber, the Carter has the motor under the pump chamber, and the motor is allowed to swim in whatever juices your pumping with it. Considering the wild cocktail of fuels that the Moosestang runs, this should be interesting.
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Here we have the Holley with 40,000 miles on it on the left. The box for the new Carter is on the right.
Out of the box, the Carter has a lot more "stuff" associated with it. The Holley Red is esentially just the pump in the box, with the electrical leads permenently connected and no fittings. A rubber "gasket" is included to mount the pump to the vehicle. The Carter comes with a hardware bag that includes a bracket, rubber bushings, 6 nuts, 2 bolts, 6 washers 2 wire assemblies, and brass nipples for 3/8" hose.
Mounting - The Holley Red mounts easily with 2 bolts. Simply drill 2 holes, put the rubber gasket between the pump and the mounting surface and use 2 bolts to secure it. Mounting the Carter is much more involved. First, you must locate the bracket and mount it. Convienently, the distance between the mounting holes on the Holley and Carter are the same. This is great, because it means you can switch between both pumps without changing the way you mount them. Once the bracket is bolted to the frame, or whatever your mounting it to, you can insert the rubber bushings into 3 of the six holes provided. The extra holes and triangular mounting pattern allow you to mount the pump in 3 orientations, giving much more flexibility than the Holley. Once the bushing are installed, washers are put on the pump mounting studs, the studs are passed through the bushings, then small washers, locknuts, and nuts are put on. Given the mounting scheme and extra rubber I was expecting this pump to be really quiet.
Installation - Aside from the physical mounting, the nipples that come with the pump supposedly do not need any sealant. In fact, you are warned not to use teflon tape because this may crack the pump housing.
There are also multiple warnings that a pre-filter is required for this pump. I considered this, but since I am comparing the Holley and Carter for longevity, I did not want to change the quality of the fuel the pump would be receiving. Conseqently, the Carter is not being filtered any more than the Holley was. The Moosestang has a sock in the tank, AND the Ford in-tank lift pump feeding the Carter, so I felt there was sufficient filtration. Now, strickly speaking, the Holley Red DOES feature an intergal filter screen. I do not think the Carter has one. If the Carter meets an early demise, this will need to be considered, but IF a prefilter is really needed, then this will negate any cost advantages of the Carter.Electrical - The Holley Red has clearly marked black and red wires for frame ground and hot respectively, that are permenently attached. The Carter has black only wires, with non-keyed contact studs that are identical. This means that the wires on the Carter are not secure, and could be pulled off by either an errant tree branch, or malicious pair of fingers. Once off, they could be easily reversed and the pump made to run backwards. This is a serious design flaw in my opinion. If you impliment this pump, be sure to label the connections clearly. Both pumps take 12 volts, and a nominal amount of current to run.
Operation - Given the mounting scheme, and the submersed nature of the Carter pump motor, I was shocked at how loud it was. It IS quieter than the Holley Red, but still it was easily heard, which in my case I consider this a blessing. If it had been virtually silent, I would not have been too happy, as I like a pump that tells me it is running. But for those who like to complain about the noise of the Holley, this pump will not make you that much happier. The Carter has fuel flow and presure characteristics that are right there with the Holley Red. The Carter flows 72 GPH and the Holley flows 97, flowing freely. At 5 PSI, the Carter does not have an advertised flow rate, but the Holley lists 67 GPH.
Summary - Only time will tell which pump will hold up better in my application. Unless the Carter outlasts the Holley by a wide margin, my guts still say the Holley is the better pump. It has more balls on paper, mounts easier, and features serviceable pump parts as well as an inlet screen built-in. The Carter has some quirky advantages - the electrical connections are both a curse and a blessing, but you won't have to add a plug or get out the wire snips to remove a Carter pump for replacement. The versatility in mounting may give it an edge over the Holley in some situations. Noise differences between the pumps in my opinion are not significant enough to warrant consideration in the purchasing decision. The Carter is significantly cheaper, so if longevity is equal it's clearly the price point leader. It was also made in USA. I am not sure about the Holley on that front.
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The Carter P4070 pump ended up hanging a good bit lower than the Holley for my application, using the same mounting holes as the Holley Red.
. One day I will switch over to electric. This Carter pump plus another filter would be fairly nice 
