Lets talk performance fuel injection....

[Diesel JD]

I went to a new local diesel shop today just to meet the owner and try and see how his knowledge was on IDIs. He seemed to know Stanadyne pumps real well and have good knowledge of the platform, but he said some things that sort of disagree with what I read about here. He said that anyone who tries to sell you a "turbo" injection pump or "built" pump is likely either BSing you or perhaps the pump is only for racing applications,a nd is most likely lining his pockets. Also he said that a 92.5 and later turbo cal pump is not at all right for a 6.9 even with a turbo. Something about it being not balanced right and everything. He said a slightly turned up DB2 will flow more fuel than the injectors can handle, and that the cam ring is the limiting factor on DB2s. Anyways...just thought I'd pass this along....does anyone know what Ken does to his turbo cal pumps to make them better than stock...if you read this you can answer, without of course getting into anything that is proprietary. He also said that timing with tools was sort of a waste of time once you have an ear for it and that about 40% of these trucks you can't even get a timing meter to read. Any thoughts on this? Have a good one.
J.D.

 

[160k87F250]

I looked onto this somewhat. If you look up an IP from Ford, there are 2 different part numbers for a turbo and non-turbo. So I imagine there is some difference, just don't know what it is.
John

 

[reklund]

I just strapped one of Ken's pumps onto my truck, along with his stage one injector set. I have no idea what he does, but the truck is a totally different beast with the new parts. It doubled, yes, doubled my boost (from 5# to about 11#) on my old non-wastegated ATS setup.

I have tried 2 timing meters and haven't had good success yet getting them to read, but haven't given up. I think it's totall ******** that timing by ear is as good as it gets- that statement alone would make me look elsewhere for my trucks parts.

Ryan

 

[icanfixall]

Anybody can time by ear but.... Unless you use the tools designed to time these motors you will never know if you are correct. I have read some members posts here that timed their motors by ear. Then had them "checked" and found the were exactually correct. This is not the norm. Use the tools and egt it right. Then go from there. I'm not sure on the guy stating that a slightly turned up pump can put out more fuel than an injector can handle. I'm not and injector or pump guy.... Yet....

 

[Diesel JD]

Thanks keep it coming guys. I really would like to hear from Ken or DieselDummy, but all experiences are welcome. Gary don't you have the 92.5 and later factory turbo injection pump on your motor?

 

[apextrans]

I also installed Ken's pump & injectors. There IS a difference. To be fair thought, my stock pump was leaking a bit. However, the shaft in my first pump from Ken shear off after about 3 weeks. The replacement pump didn't feel as stong to me as the first pump from Ken. I think the first pump was a Ford turbo pump because it had the adjustment screw up top as well as behind the triangle plate. The second pump was sans top screw just like my original pump. In any case the DPS pumps were much stronger than the stock pump.

As far as timing, Mel timed my truck for me. He did have a hard time getting the meter to pick up a siginal at first, but after sanding some paint off the #1 injector line, the meter was reading ok. IIRC, the other problem we (he) had was getting the probe to stay still in the timing port. I cleaned mine out a bit too well I guess before heading to mel's & the probe was moving around some with the truck running. Once he got everything to hold still, it was no trouble at all. Ken's pump & injector's are worth the coin & proper timing seemed to me to make the truck run smoother.

 

[argve]

JD,

What you were told was not really different than what I was told by my local injection shop. They told me that there are only two real differences between the IDI pumps, I was told that there are two different bore sizes for the pistons on the pumps (6.9 and 7.3) he told me that the differences beyond that are just in how it's calibrated. He also said that there are no real differences (for performance) in injectors but this shop does nothing other than stock replacement type stuff. They didn't even deal in HP PSD stuff. They are just an old farm type store that has been around since dirt was clean (owner drives an IDI and my infamous Jared mechanic is a goat lover - 1st gen)... How ironic is that....

 

[argve]

but from my conversations with Ken at the IDI weekend in Michigan that there is a difference in his pumps. He didn't give away any secrets but we were nailing him to the floor pretty good on what was different. And from what I gathered he does something with the bore size but he didn't come right out and say... must be his trade secret... but again he didn't say but that is where my mind was headed from our converstation.

 

[Diesel JD]

Yeah I think this guy doesn't believe in anything much between stock and sled pullers. That being said, he seems smart, and honest, and if I stay with stock stuff...I will most likely buy from him. Is there any validity to his statement that the turboi cal pumps are not suited for the 6.9 even with a turbo?

 

[argve]

I asked that very question to my pump man... and he said someone with my driving style would love a 73 pump on a 69 - more fuel to flow... I want to say quoted like 17mm bore vs 21mm bore on the pistons. But my memory after all these years...

 

[Diesel JD]

Yeah, perhaps I'll have a talk with Ken...if'n I can catch him....I have to see what the budget is. I need to get my taxes paid...or my refund...and then get the injectors tested and see if I need any new ones. I really don't want to be doing fuel system work after the turbo is on... do you guys that have installed a turbo know if the injector pump has to come off to install a trubo or not? It would make a difference for purposed of timing. I think I will get the pump timed with tools whether I use the current one or a new one...no matter what this guy says.

 

[Runboy]

Pumps

I find this all very interesting and have been wondering about the pumps myself.
Oregon Fuel Injection did the pump on my truck for the previous owner and on the receipt it says "turn up for banks turbo".
If you are spewing Black Smoke, what else can a pump provide? I want to learn as much as possible about "hotrodding" the IDI.

I find it interesting all the different calibrations listed for our pumps here:
http://www.o-f-i.com/index.php?pid=16#REBUILT_EXCHANGE_DIESEL_FUEL_INJECTION_PUMPS

Mike

 

[apextrans]

Yeah, perhaps I'll have a talk with Ken...if'n I can catch him....I have to see what the budget is. I need to get my taxes paid...or my refund...and then get the injectors tested and see if I need any new ones. I really don't want to be doing fuel system work after the turbo is on... do you guys that have installed a turbo know if the injector pump has to come off to install a trubo or not? It would make a difference for purposed of timing. I think I will get the pump timed with tools whether I use the current one or a new one...no matter what this guy says.

You don't have to take the IP off to do a turbo install. While you've got everything apart up there, it is a good time to freshen up the fuel system, if that's what you're getting at.

 

[Diesel JD]

Yeah I think if you are spewing black smoke then that pump is making more fuel than the engine can burn. If that's true you are only wasting fuel and providing ammo for the environmental extremists to target us with. That said some black smoke is normal for this vintage diesel and I wouldn't feel guilty about it. Gotta watch the EGTs though.

 

[Diesel JD]

Thanks.... I probably wouldn't be as interested, but the guy at the injection shop said that I was leaking fuel out the pump weep hole, but I have so many little drips and return line leaks, its hard to believe he can tell where its coming from. If its bad, I'd like to start off with a known good pump and injectors. If everything is good, I want to get it timed precisely and call it good.