benwill1
94Ecabfaciditrb4x4
You may want to try another boost guage, for a back-up reading.
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Injector pump timing with turbo? Boost pressure?
- Thread starter frdtrckmnrich
- Start date
icanfixall
Official GMM hand model
I may have missed this but what brand of head gaskets are you using? Many here feel there is no differance between the few manufactors of gaskets. I'm not one of them. I use Fel Pro because I have found they are a better made gasket. They are also 10 thousands thicker than the stock head gaskets. I measuered this off my old set that had around 270,000 miles of use without being blown. That was around 200,000 miles of running the Banks Sidewinder turbo pulling heavy and long hauls. I did cavitate around 220,000 miles and the shop sleeved number 7 cylinder but wouldn't replace the head gasket on the other bank of cylinders. I argued the point of its much easier now with the motor out of the truck but they said it wasn't needed. I feel they wanted me back later for more labor charges. Didn't ever happen. But anyway the Fel Pro gaskets work very well but so did my original one one bank. Checking the torque wrench is a good idea and using brake cleaner to really get the mating surfaces clean helps. Are you using a 7/16th bottoming tap to clean the threads in the block all the way to the bottom?
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frdtrckmnrich
Full Access Member
Keep the ideas coming please.
I would also like to let you know that even my buddy who is an engine builder is confused. He is the one who checked the heads and block. He was also there to help with the torqueing of the heads this last time.
I did have a concern as to wether or not the problem could have something to do with the studs coming loose. However arp says nothing about a retorque or loctiteing them in place in the block. It does say to use moly on the nuts when torqueing them down. I did do that.
I would also like to let you know that even my buddy who is an engine builder is confused. He is the one who checked the heads and block. He was also there to help with the torqueing of the heads this last time.
I did have a concern as to wether or not the problem could have something to do with the studs coming loose. However arp says nothing about a retorque or loctiteing them in place in the block. It does say to use moly on the nuts when torqueing them down. I did do that.
icanfixall
Official GMM hand model
The ARP head studs are 220,000 psi material and they wont stretch or loosen up after you torque them down. If the gaskets compressed overnite and the studs loosened up then I say replace them with Felpro. You have not posted what brand you are using yet. I really don't know why these problems continue to haunt you either but we as a collective will find out whats going on and help you fix it.
frdtrckmnrich
Full Access Member
I am sorry! I thought i posted it......they are Felpro gaskets.
Ford428CJ
FE Freak!
Any time you blow a head gasket, you should have the heads resurfaced! Otherwise you could be blowing your money, time and efforts. Trust me on that! They may come out true on the bench but once bolted down is a different story. Need to get your heads resurfaced!!!! JMHO
Be VERY careful here. There is a very specific minimal thickness for the heads on these engines and unless they absolutely must be surfaced it is not a good idea. Many heads have been rendered useless due to 'over' surfacing and then trying to get the other parameters within spec. A common problem being cutting valve seats into water jackets to attain the necessary valve recession. The 'new' thickness for the heads is spec'd at 4.7950-4.8050" and the minimum servicable thickness is 4.7950" so there is not a lot to play with. The specs call for an allowable max of .006" warp overall.
Ford428CJ
FE Freak!
If they have been surfaced a few times then you might be better off finding a set of heads for it. But if you are already blown gaskets out of this thing, your gonna need to do something with the heads. Bottom line or otherwise you will always have this problem! He may need to find a set then if they have been surfaced before. JMO
Diesel JD
Full Access Member
I had my heads sresurface when the truck was down for head gasket replacement. I did a comporession check before and after. Before it was around 450-460 all the way around, after I was anywhere from 460-525, so it makes a difference. That increase was just from around .005" taken off the heads or even less. That was the first time that motor had been opened up it looked like. That was before I knew about a minimum thickness. It does make a difference in terms of compression. I don't know what would happen if you bolted on overplaned heads. If I recall, Gary you said the warpage limit was .006" overall but only .003" within any one 6" section of the head..or am I mistaken.
icanfixall
Official GMM hand model
You are correct about the max and overall warpage. Could it be the heads or block are not the correct finish? These head gaskets need a certain finish so they can grab and not slip between the block and head. They cannot be a mirror finish. Thats for the copper and cometic head gaskets...Felpro are very good gaskets so I dought its you getting a bad set. Which way are you placeing them on the block. They do have a top and bottom side. I really don't want to imbarras you by asking this. I'm just reaching out with questions. Gees... After all my problems with rebuilding my motor I finally get it up and loose the trans. Then I install a BTS E4OD and after 7 miles of use I see the temp gage up to 205 degrees. Why yes I paniced big time. I limped it home and by the time I got home I figured it out. I only have 5200 miles on my truck in the last 2 years and I forgot what gage was the trans temp. I was looking at the motor oil temp gage..... That was a really easy fix. Just look at the OTHER GAGE.....
frdtrckmnrich
Full Access Member
So where do you measure the heads for thickness.
I do not remember seeing anywhere on the gaskets that stated "this side up". Or anything to that nature.
I do not remember seeing anywhere on the gaskets that stated "this side up". Or anything to that nature.
Head thickness is measured from the valve cover mating surface to the 'deck' surface. Surface finish should be 63-125 RMS. There is an indication on the gaskets and it looks like this (sorry for the poor pic but this is a used gasket)
You can see the "UP" embossed in the gasket at the bottom.
You can see the "UP" embossed in the gasket at the bottom.
Attachments
icanfixall
Official GMM hand model
Suv thats a really nice picture. I have seen many blurred pictures that are worthless. This may be the problem as to why the gaskets keep failing. If they are on upside down they wont cover properly. The precups need that steel on the head gasket touching them plus other water passages will not line up properly..... I remember a member removed his new Felpro gaskets because he had forgotten which way he had installed them. Come to find out they were on correctly but that covered his piece of mind about guessing forever about that. I usually take pictures of this and other things that I can't see after I have completed the motor assembly. And yes, I have gone back and looked at those pictures just to put my mind at ease. Its really crappy when you get older and can't remember things that used to be so important..... I missed our 30 year anaversary this year. I went to the wifes work 1 month and 3 days too early with her favorite flowers. She thought that she had forgotten too but came to her senses quickly and really let me have it all over the office. They all got a big laugh at my expence. Gees... At least I wasn't late....;p
frdtrckmnrich
Full Access Member
After seeing that picture i vaguely remember seeing that "up". But i am not 100% sure. That will definately be something i check when i pull it down. I am going to try and do a compression and coolant pressure check this week, before i tear it down.I am having trouble locating a compression tester that goes that high.
Diesel JD
Full Access Member
Harbor Freight Tools usually has them. Not too spendy either, but still a little more than a gas tester. A coolant pressure tester you can rent from an autozone or perhaps an advance auto parts store. Good luck,
JD
JD
