Injector or Worse?

[jhenegh]

For O-rings just to have extras on hand, I bough a pack of these in 2013 right when I got my truck and it had a few leaky caps. Lots less than $25

http://www.mcmaster.com/#9464k24/=10mex4e

 

[crash-harris]

Might not be a bad idea for later. Russ said he sent extra o-rings out with the return kit/loaner injector.

When I get the truck moving again and to the garage I'll be working in, I'll pull the dipstick and check oil. If it looks like there's more than oil in the crankcase of smells like diesel fuel then I'll change it before I roll it back out of the garage.

 

[crash-harris]

Alright, new development...

First off, I've referenced my injector numbers wrong previously, either in this thread or someone else's, but I found/saved a diagram to help me (I think). Injectors on drivers side are even numbers and passenger side are odd, correct?

Anyway, replaced the stuck open #6 injector with the loaner that Russ sent me. It came out in pieces and was caked with carbon. Makes me fearful that replacing all the injectors when the new ones show up is going to be a longer process. One of the 3 little pins inside the injector was gone. I dropped another in the hole and instead of stopping like the rest, it dropped all the way in (came back out). Needless to say, I had to roll the engine over with a block of wood over the injector bore to capture the pieces (only 2 small pins in there before I did this) and grind the threads off the injector and thread it back into the other have. Thankfully it caught and I used a screwdriver to put enough pressure on it to come out while I spun the injector. Copper washer was a PITA. Don't have a pick long enough with a short enough tip on it, but I put a little screwdriver on the grinder to make a tooth and spent about 5-10 minutes picking at it before it popped loose.

Torqued the new injector to 33 ft lbs after using petroleum kelly to hold the new copper washer on. No anti-seize, so I used jelly on the threads for now (anti-seize on my list) and coated the o-rings and return cap. So much so that there was no click when pressing it on, but felt it land home, doesn't seem to leak. Threaded the line nut on and started the engine. Noticeable miss at start up, same as before replacement, but smoothed out. Guessing that was the fuel bleeding through the injector. Noticed that the #4 injector had smoke coming off it. It could have been left over fuel from the old return cap that was spraying. But top of the threads that I could see above the head were wet on the new injector after startup (petroleum jelly melting?). Noticed before I started working on the truck today that the wire loom for the GP harness was a little melted where it contacted the #4 injector. After shutting the engine off, #2, 4 and 6 injectors where hot, #8 was warm, but all passenger side injectors were cool to the touch. Does it sound like all the drivers side injectors are starting to stick? Why would the new one be hot to the touch (unless it was warm from having air in the line)?

I have a pic and video uploading now that I will post once they show up in my photobucket.

 

[crash-harris]

Picture of the #4 injector. Yes I used the old style return lines that were already on the engine (until I replace all the injectors). I also, after seeing smoke, loosened the lime nut on top of #4 and toughened the injector in the bore since it was loose enough to move. Video is on its way.

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[crash-harris]

Also just flipped through my Haynes diesel manual and the injector torque is listed at 35 ft lbs and my googling has turned up that loose injectors will get hot. Obviously due to combustion temps. Could all of my driver side injectors just be loose? I could always tighten them a little more with a cresent wrench. Keep in mind this will just be for a 20 mile drive, then the truck will sit while I do the body work, electric pump and pyro install, coolant drain/flush and filter install, and install Russ' reman injectors/return line kit with the injector lines I got.

 

[crash-harris]

Video finally showed up. Pretty sure the cold advance kicked off shortly after I started recording.

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[icanfixall]

All cylinders on the drivers side of the engine are even numbered and if in doubt please look at the intake manifold near the 2 bolts that holds this to the head. There you can see each cylinder number cast into the intake manifold port. Then on the passenger side of the intake air horn is the firing order. The cylinders are numbered lowest from the radiator to the firewall. The back cylinders at the firewall are 7 and 8 if that makes counting easier for you. If carbon has grown in the injector bore you might have a bad seat in the head and need to ream it clean again. The tool is called a seat reamer and VERY expensive on ebay. Mostly impossible to find too.

 

[crash-harris]

I tried to clean it out as much as I could with the small screwdriver. I'm just curious if it looks/seems to you guys like I'm getting seepage past the injectors due to them being loose. With the heat and smoke. Could I just tighten the injectors some more with a cresent wrench and make my 20 mile trip?

And what size flat reamer would I need?

 

[crash-harris]

Bump for you first shifters.

 

[dunk]

If they've been loose for any amount of time I'd suspect there's some buildup on the sealing surfaces. To go 20 miles to where you are equipped to work in confort, I'd try to get a torque wrench on as many as I could and snug up any others with a wrench. Good enough IMO, as you'll be replacing them and addressing any issues with the seats anyway.

 

[crash-harris]

That's what I'm hoping to do.

Does anyone have a measurement for the injector bore? There are some cheapo seat reamer kits on ebay, but I need to know the correct size reamer I'd need first.

Also thinking of just getting a wire brush for the drill and going at the seats with PB Blaster and the brush. It would allow me to inspect the seat itself and determine if they need material taken off/cut flat.

 

[OLDBULL8]

Yeah, looking at the smoke and blowby, you can be sure they are not tight/seated.
Just crank all of them down as tight as you can get them, won't hurt anything since your going to replace them anyhow.
A 20 mile drive is like nothing.

The injector reamer is a special reamer that fits the bore, and is four fluted to keep it flat. Use extreme caution when using it, a very light pressure is necessary so it don't cut into the seat but just cleans the carbon. If there are any scratches on the seat, then more pressure is needed to ream to eliminate the scratches.

 

[crash-harris]

Fairly certain that #4 just stuck open. Crackled the fuel line nuts for #'s 2, 4 and 6 and tightened the injectors down. Had to drive to the local backwoods gas station, about a mile or less away. #4 was smoking a little when I stopped there. About halfway back, I started feeling like things "lightened up" and the metallic ticking came back, but different and consistent. I can normally take the hill at 60 in 5th with my foot in the floor and still accelerate some, but this time I started losing speed and exhaust was thick and grey.

When I parked, #4 was smoking more, some fuel may have been around the GP and it was mostly smoking from there. It had melted more of the wire loom. I stuck it under the injection line to keep it away from the injector. Head on #'s 2 and 4 (thin side of injector bore) looked like cast iron had heated (bare metal, no paint, oxidation, grey).

Should I go ahead and throw the new filter on full of ATF and attempt to get these old injectors cleaned up enough to not stick on my 20 mile trip? I have 2 options for routes. My normal one is a hilly, twisty backroad to the highway, then 2 stoplights. The other is the twisty byway I live on and then all the way through town, lots of lights.

 

[OLDBULL8]

Looking at your post #5 the pic of the IP hard line, it appears there is fuel laying on top of the line nut, if that's just from loosening the nut for checking, then it means nothing, if it's after running the engine, then it could come from a cracked line right at the nut, they don't crack above the nut, but right at the very end at the "ferrule". A cracked line is very hard to see. A magnifying glass is a big help to see it.

 

[crash-harris]

Looking at your post #5 the pic of the IP hard line, it appears there is fuel laying on top of the line nut, if that's just from loosening the nut for checking, then it means nothing, if it's after running the engine, then it could come from a cracked line right at the nut, they don't crack above the nut, but right at the very end at the "ferrule". A cracked line is very hard to see. A magnifying glass is a big help to see it.

Not sure which pic you're referring to, the last one I posted? No pic on post #5, but I have another set of lines that I plan to put on when I replace injectors (minus the #1 van line that's on the engine now). As long as I can safely make my short trip, that's what I need to do for now. Just trying to avoid blowing out another return cap on the way there. I guess it's possible that the #4 line could've cracked, but I've had clamps on it for months before I started having problems and haven't removed it. First time I did anything with it since installing the clamps has been when #6 stuck open and blew the return cap. Tried to tighten #4 at that time without loosening the ferrule. Lossen it yesterday and again today to tighten that same #4 injector back down.